Remove SP from UN games, and games in their likeness.

There was a thread posted to stop UNs in general. As the discussion progressed, an idea was presented, and I want to focus on the idea specifically. The original discussion centers on broader and unorganized ideas / arguments.

http://atwar-game.com/forum/topic.php?topic_id=9617

Let us first understand what a UN is here. UN is any roleplaying game that centers around one a moderating the actions of other countries and their interactions with one another or the union itself. Typically, the United Nations is emulated in a "UN" game. The rules and regulations in UN don't matter or affect the definition. So long as a union is INTENDED or IMPLIED, it is still a UN.

Now onto the rest.

UN is without a doubt a real problem for Atwar. Let's first make sure this is well established among us.

First and foremost, UN is a massive SP farming scenario . If you play it and you disallow for the killing of players a UN can, in theory, continue on forever. This is because you can have a series of border wars and then pause before a victor is decided. Next, there is simply the killing of a single entity. In a lot of UNs there tends to be several entities ganging up on 1. In most of these, the intended union designed to moderate actions is either absent, abstained, or generally doesn't care for any moderation of any sort. At times it may even be the intended union at odds against the world. This allows for any player to participate in war against 1 very weak entity. No one is going to win a war against the world.

Secondly, UN is very unbalanced. If it weren't bad enough, the same roleplaying game that corrodes our players is also unbalanced. One large country that did literally nothing to get large can destroy all the small countries that did nothing to deserve being defeated. So suppose you're Mexico, and USA decides "hey, forget the rules" and then invades you . You're mexico against USA. That really wasn't a foreseeable event- and you're at a total disadvantage. This and more are an ongoing problem in UNs, again as if UNs themselves weren't a problem now we've got to worry about what goes on IN UN.

Thirdly, UN isn't conducive to strategic play. As mentioned in 1 and 2, you can practically sit there for most of the game on a wad of cash while your allies do all the fighting . Then when you've got enough money you go invade the person who is trying to recover from fighting 2 of your very powerful fat-cat allies. You'll get tons of SP that you didn't work for. This means, the player in question gained no understanding of strategy. They just know how to pop in when their allies threw enough units to critically wound the opponent.

Fourthly, UN is snuffing out other games. So on top of ruining players, it's ruining damn games. Presently, we can't host a good world game anymore. All anybody wants to play is UN (for the cheap SP gains and sitting there doing nothing). Even 3v3s, 6 player games, are a challenge to create. Even if a game host wanted to include low ranks in 3v3s so they could learn from high ranks, all of those low ranks are out playing UN (for the cheap SP gains and sitting there doing nothing). This leaves game hosts unable to host games. Here is testament from Tunder3:

נכתב על ידי Tundy, 24.08.2013 at 20:07

i give up hosting scenarios and making maps along time ago, each time i make one super map people never play it cuz UN gets all the players, and when i get to get it full is ruined within 5 turns by a wf or leaver.

That is testimony. This is affecting players everywhere.

Fifthly, AW will rot as a result of the above. Game hosts and good players will quit. Only the foulest most disgusting traits of the community will survive (much like simplistic life forms will survive a nuclear winter but not being squished by my thumb). Eventually, AW will collapse because these UN players simply won't be able to play UN anymore. They'll become high ranked and try to experience other forms of the game and won't know how to excel in them. Once then, bored and not needing SP of the UN, they will quit AW and thus the generation of UN will seal the fate of AW.


Now, these arguments are generally solid. The fifth one is up to interpretation of course

However, it should be well established by now: UN is indeed a real problem for AW. Being in denial is absolutely ridiculous unless you can prove all my points wrong.

So, on to the suggestion:

As a solution to the UN problem, it's been suggested that SP be removed from UN games and games in their likeness (UNs as defined earlier). At first, this may sound far gone. I mean we're really going to remove SP because a bunch of people want to play a popular game?

Considering all of the above arguments and the potential death of AW, I'd say it's at least worth looking into. Removing SP from UN is like removing venom from a snake. Now, one very powerful argument against the fight to stop UNs is that UN is fUN (;D) for the people who play them. Removing SP from UN will effectively prove just how many people actually play it for fun and not for SP . Next, SP removal means that UN players will be forced to play other games and experience other battles not like those of UN in order to achieve their precious ranks. So, the second concept works whether or not people still play UN after an SP removal. If SP is removed and nobody plays UN ever again, they will be forced to play other more sensible games (assuming they don't want to play UN for fun hehe ) OOR if they do still play UN, they won't be at rank 8 playing like rank 5.

This suggestion is probably the most straight forward by far and it is the second most barbaric method at attacking UN- due the fact that removing UNs altogether ranks above removing SP gain.

Please voice your thoughts on this, and please don't attack me individually. I like the IDEA of UN, it's all fun and games until the community has to suffer

Also, don't use the logic of "don't attack UN games because people like it". UN is by far the only game that actually harms the site as a whole

I totally agree with all of the points stated, UN need to be contained, one way or another, for the safety and future of atWar.
But as said, it'll be interesting to see how many actually play UN ''for the fun of it'' if SP is removed from the UN players or all players in the game, at least for the time being, to see what people truly like so much about UN, or if it's just about the SP.

I give my full support to this.

נכתב על ידי Pyrrhus, 25.08.2013 at 05:01

I totally agree with all of the points stated, UN need to be contained, one way or another, for the safety and future of atWar.
But as said, it'll be interesting to see how many actually play UN ''for the fun of it'' if SP is removed from the UN players or all players in the game, at least for the time being, to see what people truly like so much about UN, or if it's just about the SP.

If nothing else here makes sense after point 4;

This is at least something worth the site to uncover.

This will not happen.

I do agree with you but I know admins will not do this.

נכתב על ידי Mrs Tickle, 25.08.2013 at 05:34

This will not happen.

I do agree with you but I know admins will not do this.

Please explain why such solid points are simply ignored by admins. This is about the third time someone tells me it won't happen:

I must know why so I could piss everybody off enough to force it to happen.

צטט:

Please explain why such solid points are simply ignored by admins. This is about the third time someone tells me it won't happen:

I must know why so I could piss everybody off enough to force it to happen.

Because there is a community of UN fans and I am pretty sure admins doesn't care less, as long people play atWar.

P.S. I am not a UN fan lul

צטט:

נכתב על ידי Mrs Tickle, 25.08.2013 at 05:37

Please explain why such solid points are simply ignored by admins. This is about the third time someone tells me it won't happen:

I must know why so I could piss everybody off enough to force it to happen.

Because there is a community of UN fans and I am pretty sure admins doesn't care less, as long people play atWar.

That's the thing, though, people (with money) won't play atwar.

צטט:

That's the thing, though, people (with money) won't play atwar.

atWar is getting more popular, every week there are more people coming into atWar website.

(thanks to afahbren!)

UN doesn't really affect atWar revenue that much.

Sorry to say but UN games will always be here, we just have to deal with them.

צטט:

נכתב על ידי Mrs Tickle, 25.08.2013 at 05:41

That's the thing, though, people (with money) won't play atwar.

atWar is getting more popular, every week there are more people coming into atWar website.

(thanks to afahbren!)

UN doesn't really affect atWar revenue that much.

Sorry to say but UN games will always be here, we just have to deal with them.

They will consume the game. Dealing with it really is not an option.

צטט:

They will consume the game. Dealing with it really is not an option.

Everything will be the same from today and toward.

Nothing will change because like I said, admins does not care less. That all you need to know about UN fate.

mfw i'm actually defending UN

Oh please, this is ridiculous.

נכתב על ידי Lukas Weski, 25.08.2013 at 05:55

Oh please, this is ridiculous.

Lol

...and games in their likeness. I never played UN or scenario ever, buut please who is goin to determin that likeness of games?

Who gives a shit if someone is wining more sp then you.

נכתב על ידי Lukas Weski, 25.08.2013 at 05:55

Oh please, this is ridiculous.

Please provide an actual argument

נכתב על ידי Guest, 25.08.2013 at 06:42

...and games in their likeness. I never played UN or scenario ever, buut please who is goin to determin that likeness of games?

Who gives a shit if someone is wining more sp then you.

lol, why do you even bother to comment if you are a rank 3....

נכתב על ידי Guest, 25.08.2013 at 06:42

...and games in their likeness. I never played UN or scenario ever, buut please who is goin to determin that likeness of games?

Who gives a shit if someone is wining more sp then you.

You made the hulk mad. The previous thread was saying how atwar players have no skill. Why? UN. Un literally takes no skill besides making units and hoarding and allyfagging everyone. And then these noobs go into a Europe game and pick Switzerland 10k cause they think they are going to make bank. UN is corrupting the minds of these young atwar players.


Different note:




They wont ever make it ass a half ass player :/

נכתב על ידי Tundy, 25.08.2013 at 09:23

נכתב על ידי Guest, 25.08.2013 at 06:42

...and games in their likeness. I never played UN or scenario ever, buut please who is goin to determin that likeness of games?

Who gives a shit if someone is wining more sp then you.

lol, why do you even bother to comment if you are a rank 3....

Everyone has a say in every argument involving them, rank literally does not matter.

נכתב על ידי Tundy, 25.08.2013 at 09:23

נכתב על ידי Guest, 25.08.2013 at 06:42

...and games in their likeness. I never played UN or scenario ever, buut please who is goin to determin that likeness of games?

Who gives a shit if someone is wining more sp then you.

lol, why do you even bother to comment if you are a rank 3....

Why do you comment before checking my profile and realizing im a big fat alt.

Just saying there will always be players who wont progress no matter what they play and still dont worry there will be does who will.

You all talking about like the game has gone to hell when in fact it's not so different then before UN.

נכתב על ידי Guest, 25.08.2013 at 11:04

Just saying there will always be players who wont progress no matter what they play and still dont worry there will be does who will.

You all talking about like the game has gone to hell when in fact it's not so different then before UN.

I don't give a damn who you are.

You clearly ignored the argument here if you think this is about SP and me being upset over people gaining it.

There's a fine line between playing a game for SP, which most of us do. And playing a gamee because we enjoy it. Im probably in the middle. I'll still play Europe+ maps even if you start giving free sp in uns games. I play UN for the Sp. I will do so until I am a rank 7 however that doesnt make me a bad player or gives you reason to think that i dont bother with any other maps. This post is useless.

נכתב על ידי Dr Lecter, 25.08.2013 at 04:44

UN is a massive SP farming scenario

Technically this might be the case. But UN players join the game to do role playing, tinker around with diplomacy and have a fun game in the first place. As soon as a UN player goes rogue most other players rage quit instantly so the farming aspect can be neglected.

OK ladies, the bottom line is that UN is destroying what AtWar used to be. All of the testimonies that you hear from individuals who hate UN are all in Clans and all enjoy Clan Wars. It baffles me that people can log on to AW and enjoy playing UN; what are these people doing for the greater good of the game......Nothing. These UN players will NEVER be recruited by clans due to their lack of general knowledge and skill on AW. If they are recruited by a clan it will be a skill less clan that will most likely be ruled by other UN players.

The Era of the skilled player is GONE if the UN continues, period. UN players are one track minded and are unable to understand what we are talking about because the VAST majority of them have never seen "Afterwind" or even know what it was.

Personally i don't care that much about people playing UN.....it's a damn game fellas. I am perfectly content clan warring "True Clans" such as SM, .187, The Avengers (these are just a few examples, there are many other "true clans" out there).

So, stop caring so much about people playing UN, it's not a HUGE deal like everyone is making it out to be. Let players play AW how THEY want to and you play it how YOU want to.

Primal

נכתב על ידי Guest, 25.08.2013 at 11:01

נכתב על ידי Tundy, 25.08.2013 at 09:23

נכתב על ידי Guest, 25.08.2013 at 06:42

...and games in their likeness. I never played UN or scenario ever, buut please who is goin to determin that likeness of games?

Who gives a shit if someone is wining more sp then you.

lol, why do you even bother to comment if you are a rank 3....

Why do you comment before checking my profile and realizing im a big fat alt.

Well your alt is probably rank 6 judging from the ranked duels you play. hahaha.

נכתב על ידי Dr Lecter, 25.08.2013 at 11:07

נכתב על ידי Guest, 25.08.2013 at 11:04

Just saying there will always be players who wont progress no matter what they play and still dont worry there will be does who will.

You all talking about like the game has gone to hell when in fact it's not so different then before UN.

I don't give a damn who you are.

You clearly ignored the argument here if you think this is about SP and me being upset over people gaining it.

Oh the argument is the lack of skill this players, or the lack of skill needed to play UN ...so what, not everyone whants to make afterwind their carrer.

...and yeah must have felt good saying "I dont give a damn who you are". ...jesus you all taking same game to seriously.

צטט:

צטט:

Well your alt is probably rank 6 judging from the ranked duels you play. hahaha.

Umm yeah dude i belive i have beaten you with some of my alt accounts so be quiet.

צטט:

צטט:

נכתב על ידי Guest, 25.08.2013 at 11:24

Well your alt is probably rank 6 judging from the ranked duels you play. hahaha.

Umm yeah dude i belive i have beaten you with some of my alt accounts so be quiet.

tophats stop being a bitch,i am gonna be rank 10 next week..

;3 it makes me sad that you have to post in your alts to defend UN.

נכתב על ידי VRIL, 25.08.2013 at 11:14

נכתב על ידי Dr Lecter, 25.08.2013 at 04:44

UN is a massive SP farming scenario

Technically this might be the case. But UN players join the game to do role playing, tinker around with diplomacy and have a fun game in the first place. As soon as a UN player goes rogue most other players rage quit instantly so the farming aspect can be neglected.

because UN will not attack until turn 2, and once turn 3 starts he will have 2k sp and everyone will ragequit, making it a Auto-Win.

נכתב על ידי Primal, 25.08.2013 at 11:17

OK ladies, the bottom line is that UN is destroying what AtWar used to be. All of the testimonies that you hear from individuals who hate UN are all in Clans and all enjoy Clan Wars. It baffles me that people can log on to AW and enjoy playing UN; what are these people doing for the greater good of the game......Nothing. These UN players will NEVER be recruited by clans due to their lack of general knowledge and skill on AW. If they are recruited by a clan it will be a skill less clan that will most likely be ruled by other UN players.

The Era of the skilled player is GONE if the UN continues, period. UN players are one track minded and are unable to understand what we are talking about because the VAST majority of them have never seen "Afterwind" or even know what it was.

Personally i don't care that much about people playing UN.....it's a damn game fellas. I am perfectly content clan warring "True Clans" such as SM, .187, The Avengers (these are just a few examples, there are many other "true clans" out there).

So, stop caring so much about people playing UN, it's not a HUGE deal like everyone is making it out to be. Let players play AW how THEY want to and you play it how YOU want to.

Primal

Well, does the first paragraph include all scenarios besides World wars? Ancient world has like no skill to it. But everything else you said 5/5