Reaching Top by farm low of ranks & victory condition changes

נכתב על ידי Darkmace, 22.02.2016 at 16:16

Nice film which lasts for 18 minutes.
Did you watch Charlie Chaplin?

נכתב על ידי Croat, 22.02.2016 at 16:17

נכתב על ידי Darkmace, 22.02.2016 at 16:16

Nice film which lasts for 18 minutes.
Did you watch Charlie Chaplin?

Na, I didn't watch movie I said episode did I not? (I know I said movie before, but I changed my mind).

נכתב על ידי Darkmace, 22.02.2016 at 16:19

(I know I said movie before, but I changed my mind).

Nothing new

נכתב על ידי W4R_MaChINE, 22.02.2016 at 15:41

Yes, you "think" their viewpoint is that, but you can't know for sure. And of course neither can I. We can assume, but we can never be certain in their motives.

why do you turn this to a philosophical debate... their intentions, hopes and dreams are irrelevant. What is "relevant" is the competition

נכתב על ידי Goblin, 22.02.2016 at 17:10

נכתב על ידי W4R_MaChINE, 22.02.2016 at 15:41

Yes, you "think" their viewpoint is that, but you can't know for sure. And of course neither can I. We can assume, but we can never be certain in their motives.

why do you turn this to a philosophical debate... their intentions, hopes and dreams are irrelevant. What is "relevant" is the competition

And farming guys with a game exploit isn't competitive.. its cheating gggggg

Im surprised Croat doesnt know better than engage in a conversation of this kind with w4r. W4r, famous for being an evol spy in Illyria ( and a bad one) is also famous for his lack of game ethics and morals. He has shown in the past that he does not value fair play and good sportsmanship. But why would he now publicly defend borderline cheaters and abusers of the system is beyond me.

Condemning elo farmers and taking action against setting change abusers should be a no-brainer. Cheers to laochra for working on this (benefits of a "competitive" player in the mod team)

p.s. I really hate the "its not against the rules" argument. Scamming people of money is in so many cases not illegal aswell. Same with killing animals in some countries. And simpler things like letting your dog have a shit in the street and not pick it up or throw your garbage around. Its still not against the "rules" but its wrong and if i catch you do it im gonna beat your nappy head to a pulp.

p.s. 2 Not liking croat for any reason (stop deleting your threads dickhead!) is your business and perfectly acceptable. But supporting cheaters and exploiters just to get back at him is cheap.

What I'm wanting to know is: why didn't he just report this to mods quietly and not make us read this big elaborate post... As it's ultimately up to mods anyway, and we have no power over this issue, a post in the forums was not necessary.

Still, nice work on this

נכתב על ידי Khal.eesi, 22.02.2016 at 17:24

Im surprised Croat doesnt know better than engage in a conversation of this kind with w4r.

I gone rusty in discussions since Tito had gone inactive



+ offtopic
can you find anyhow that molotov picture for me again? I was searching for it yesterday and couldn't find it.. so, pls bb in inbox

You cant take away medals from them if they won them, they broke no rules, change the way duels are made so that r5 and under cant duel those r6 and over etc
or better way players are warned of a victory condition.

they just exploited the loophole, no reason for their accomplishment to be undone

I think at least we reached a consensus on something here : W4r is an idiot

I clearly have to jump back into this topic seeing as how people are still arguing against my points.

You can't ban a player/ take away his elo/ or even remove him from leader boards for using all tools/ and game play settings given to him. Admins allowed hosts to change victory settings for a reason. It adds new life into a rather dull game-play (over time). To say that using this feature is considered farming is ridiculous. The only consensus we can reach is that players are not aware that these settings can be changed, or are ignorant to what game they are joining.
*When you click on a game, you can see the settings listed before you join.
For example, settings listed are:
Scenario - Victory - Money - Turns - Alliances - Players



All of these game settings are listed before a player joins.
These settings can be accessed after a player has joined, and when a game has launched.

We cannot place blame on game hosts for choosing to change their game settings for their chosen game. If they choose to play a different style of game, they may do so. If they want to get away from the norm, or capping a players capital and holding for two turns, they have the choice to do so.
Notice we do not hate on players for playing cyprus vs malta duels, or clovis' famed 'no expansion duels'. We shouldn't place hate on players who wish to play game modes such as, 'capture greece and hold... and so on and so forth.

My points are so direct, it is astonishing that players are arguing against them. These players that are listed as farmers, have done nothing wrong. They have utilized all gameplay settings given to them by the admins. They push the game forward by introducing new game modes, and we should not berate them for introducing them to us.

In conclusion, Adapt or leave.. As so many Mods have once said when HTML 5 was being introduced. And yet here we are faced with another situation; yet these mods and players are standing ground against this. Why? Is it safe to say they have a one sided view on this? I am looking through multiple perspectives, and I encourage all of you to do the same.

To those that have done nothing more then post that I am and an Idiot/Troll or just stupid, please grow up. There are better ways to express your views then to resort these childish acts. You are welcome to debate, but do not resort to such childish and immature behavior.

Just read through the initial thoughts here and thought I would add a little context because it seems some are missing exactly what is going on.

So player "Matthew" starts a ffa game, not a duel, and during the game or right before the game starts he changes the setting from normal settings to capture x country. He will then pick right next to that country (or if changing settings mid-game change it to right next to him). The final step is challenging random players to duels within the context of a ffa game and when they accept he will simply capture that country and win the game. Now this is of course an exploit and a dirty trick. He also will kick any players from the game who knows what he is doing, meaning that there it literally 0% chance of him losing, he only does this to people he can fool. Which means it is not a game, but simply a game breaking exploit that allows him to farm both elo, and SP, while also ruining the game for new players who just lose without knowing what happens.

Now you can see this is quite different from what Opi did to clovis for example, that was a troll and nothing but a troll. But it was also done within the context of a duel, and Clovis is a vet so he knows what happened. Now imagine doing that to rank 0-4 guys over and over again. That is exactly what is happening and i'm sure ruining many games for players and their experience in Atwar. Case in point would be another thread in which a rank 4 guy posted about there being "hackers" because a ffa game just suddenly ended with everyone else losing.

Darkmace and W4r I think you did not understand the full context of what he was doing when you made your comments. But also this is exactly the job of moderators in games, finding players who are abusing exploits and stopping them. While also fixing the wrongs by handing out punishments and assisting the players who were affected. There will always be members of a community who knowingly don't break the letter of of law but break the rules in spirit, and that is exactly what this guy is doing and something needs to be done. Not just wait for Admins to change the game.

As for punishment I think the course the Mods are taken is exactly the right approach and this has already been dealt with so it is a "non-issue". This was reported to the mods a few weeks ago by me and since then others have reported the same thing. I chose to go to mods rather than make a forum post about it, so thanks to Croat for bringing general attention to this issue.

For fixing the problem I think there are many good solutions I have heard throw around both on this post, and in chats with different people. But the common thread seems to be just making sure it is clear exactly how to win the duel, so whatever way is easiest to show victory conditions would be the best and simplest option. Hopefully in the future the Admins can add features to prevent this, but in the meantime the Moderation team will be working keep the game clean.

נכתב על ידי Prometheus, 23.02.2016 at 09:39

So player "Matthew" starts a ffa game, not a duel, and during the game or right before the game starts he changes the setting from normal settings to capture x country. He will then pick right next to that country (or if changing settings mid-game change it to right next to him). The final step is challenging random players to duels within the context of a ffa game and when they accept he will simply capture that country and win the game. Now this is of course an exploit and a dirty trick. He also will kick any players from the game who knows what he is doing, meaning that there it literally 0% chance of him losing, he only does this to people he can fool. Which means it is not a game, but simply a game breaking exploit that allows him to farm both elo, and SP, while also ruining the game for new players who just lose without knowing what happens.

So, your first point, is that the game hosts, creates a game and decides to change the settings of his game (which he has every right to do; game settings are often changed a lot during the initial creation of a game, or later if he decides he wants to alter the settings). Next he picks right next to the country he wants to capture relevant to the settings. Well why wouldn't he? Would you pick slovenia in a duel vs Germany? Or would you pick UK/ France/ or Poland, as those picks would give you the best chance to win. Challenging random players to a duel in a game where it is not a duel is perfectly fine. It has been done many times. I have done it, and it has been done to me. Again, Admins put this feature in the game for a reason. And punishing someone for using these features given to them is unjust. Kicking players from a game is up to the game host, just as it is in a scenario game (perfect example RP, kicking players is very common, and now it is kicking and adding to a ban list). There is a common phrase being thrown around, "new players, who don't know much". That should not be a problem for those more skilled, but a problem for admins for not correctly showing new players all pieces of information relevant to the game. I made this point very early on in the game.

נכתב על ידי W4R_MaChINE, 23.02.2016 at 09:49

נכתב על ידי Prometheus, 23.02.2016 at 09:39

So player "Matthew" starts a ffa game, not a duel, and during the game or right before the game starts he changes the setting from normal settings to capture x country. He will then pick right next to that country (or if changing settings mid-game change it to right next to him). The final step is challenging random players to duels within the context of a ffa game and when they accept he will simply capture that country and win the game. Now this is of course an exploit and a dirty trick. He also will kick any players from the game who knows what he is doing, meaning that there it literally 0% chance of him losing, he only does this to people he can fool. Which means it is not a game, but simply a game breaking exploit that allows him to farm both elo, and SP, while also ruining the game for new players who just lose without knowing what happens.

So, your first point, is that the game hosts, creates a game and decides to change the settings of his game (which he has every right to do; game settings are often changed a lot during the initial creation of a game, or later if he decides he wants to alter the settings). Next he picks right next to the country he wants to capture relevant to the settings. Well why wouldn't he? Would you pick slovenia in a duel vs Germany? Or would you pick UK/ France/ or Poland, as those picks would give you the best chance to win. Challenging random players to a duel in a game where it is not a duel is perfectly fine. It has been done many times. I have done it, and it has been done to me. Again, Admins put this feature in the game for a reason. And punishing someone for using these features given to them is unjust. Kicking players from a game is up to the game host, just as it is in a scenario game (perfect example RP, kicking players is very common, and now it is kicking and adding to a ban list). There is a common phrase being thrown around, "new players, who don't know much". That should not be a problem for those more skilled, but a problem for admins for not correctly showing new players all pieces of information relevant to the game. I made this point very early on in the game.

W4r is just trolling guys, no way on Earth he can genuinely believe in this crap

Croat: "Lets fix the problem instead of the root causing it"

Comments (apart from few) "Ye, lets do it"

Fix the things for duels in general as taking players of the ladder is simply retarded, the system is fucked up and they exploited it, they have every right to be on the leaderboard!

Thanks W4r for responding how you did, nice to see a discussion going on without just name calling.

It seems myself or others wont be able to convince people here that exploiting the game is NOT ok. It really just boils down to whether someone thinks it ok to exploit game mechanics for how they were not intended, or whether something should be done so exploits are not abused. In my opinion kicking people from games, and creating "duels" with 100% chance of winning is in fact not a duel and should not count as one.

All of this is ultimetly irrelevant though because as has already been stated the Mods have already worked on this and reached a conclusion, which I think is the correct one. I just wanted to post for anyone who was wondering about exactly what was going on.

Cheers everyone.

נכתב על ידי W4R_MaChINE, 23.02.2016 at 09:28

I clearly have to jump back into this topic seeing as how people are still arguing against my points.

You can't ban a player/ take away his elo/ or even remove him from leader boards for using all tools/ and game play settings given to him. Admins allowed hosts to change victory settings for a reason. It adds new life into a rather dull game-play (over time). To say that using this feature is considered farming is ridiculous. The only consensus we can reach is that players are not aware that these settings can be changed, or are ignorant to what game they are joining.
*When you click on a game, you can see the settings listed before you join.
For example, settings listed are:
Scenario - Victory - Money - Turns - Alliances - Players



All of these game settings are listed before a player joins.
These settings can be accessed after a player has joined, and when a game has launched.

We cannot place blame on game hosts for choosing to change their game settings for their chosen game. If they choose to play a different style of game, they may do so. If they want to get away from the norm, or capping a players capital and holding for two turns, they have the choice to do so.
Notice we do not hate on players for playing cyprus vs malta duels, or clovis' famed 'no expansion duels'. We shouldn't place hate on players who wish to play game modes such as, 'capture greece and hold... and so on and so forth.

My points are so direct, it is astonishing that players are arguing against them. These players that are listed as farmers, have done nothing wrong. They have utilized all gameplay settings given to them by the admins. They push the game forward by introducing new game modes, and we should not berate them for introducing them to us.

In conclusion, Adapt or leave.. As so many Mods have once said when HTML 5 was being introduced. And yet here we are faced with another situation; yet these mods and players are standing ground against this. Why? Is it safe to say they have a one sided view on this? I am looking through multiple perspectives, and I encourage all of you to do the same.

Croat said the guy was quickly changing them then starting though, that's where I see wrong doing the rest I totally agree with and there needs to be a change. But if player (A) joins a normal duel, and player (B) quickly changes settings then starts and now it's capture cyprus and he picks turkey thats cheating.

נכתב על ידי Evic, 23.02.2016 at 10:01

Croat: "Lets fix the problem instead of the root causing it"

Comments (apart from few) "Ye, lets do it"

Fix the things for duels in general as taking players of the ladder is simply retarded, the system is fucked up and they exploited it, they have every right to be on the leaderboard!

then you and the rest of the nazi boy band stop crying about how jews are running the banks, media and governments and control the world. They are not doing anything illegal, just exploiting a fucked up system. Get wrecked now.

Here we go, Croat being the atWar Social Justice Warrior once more. The moderators already stated that Wayne (I don't know about Matthew) isn't going to receive a trophy, and this has already been reported to the moderators weeks ago. Can you go a day without bitching about something on atWar and acting like you're some sort of hero? It's getting fucking annoying. Weren't you crying about the supporters the other day? And then the duel records? And now this? You could've easily reported this to the moderators via PM and they would have sorted it out (which they DID), stop publicizing your reports and spamming the forum. Use the fucking PM feature for once.

ALSO: It's funny how you're crying about people farming elo using the victory conditions. Are you forgetting that when you tried CWing my clan you put the victory conditions as capture Greece? Don't be a hypocrite kid.

נכתב על ידי Khal.eesi, 23.02.2016 at 10:38

Exactly, nazism wanted to stop the banks of having so much influence on economies/countries in the world, by doing that he would have disabled jews or anyone from exploiting the corrupted system.
Unfortunatly for the juden Hitler at the end went for the more direct approach to remove them.

Try to keep politics/history out of this thread though, we dont want another Tito!

נכתב על ידי W4R_MaChINE, 23.02.2016 at 09:28

The only consensus we can reach is that players are not aware that these settings can be changed, or are ignorant to what game they are joining.

This is what we should'be talking about. How to make players aware of the game settings.

I made several suggestions in this aspect but can't find the thread where it was made...

Just for the record, victory conditions can't be changed during the game.

In the matter we're rather undeveloped compared to rest of game community.

Find a legal method to cheat the ladder lead to disqualification...

.... in pokemon showdown they actually encourages you to use whatever you call "OP combo" to rank up in the ladder like Gredinja and some OP megas. It generates discussion which ultimately depends in their administrador to fix.

Same for YUGIOH. Use w/e card/combo you find is broke and they will eventually banlist those cards, but your points remains unchanged.

Only time I've see this happening in atWar was when bluecher archieved high ELO by playing low ranks. Goblin made a suggestion so after 512 ELO difference you get no ELO. Some people wanted to hunt him down for farmer, to recalculate his elo and even got chess to remove his peak from the hall of fame but it was quickly bought back and bluechers elo remained unchanged.

Some wanted to do the same with Kord and Kraigg.

Rest of cases they always punish the players who discovered the secret...

נכתב על ידי clovis1122, 23.02.2016 at 11:52

נכתב על ידי W4R_MaChINE, 23.02.2016 at 09:28

The only consensus we can reach is that players are not aware that these settings can be changed, or are ignorant to what game they are joining.

This is what we should'be talking about. How to make players aware of the game settings.

I made several suggestions in this aspect but can't find the thread where it was made...

Exactly. Instead of stoning these players for using all game settings options, we should use this as an opportunity to further improve the game. For example, further improving the tutorial. Fixing the settings tab when you join a game, or having more options displayed when you click on a game.

נכתב על ידי W4R_MaChINE, 23.02.2016 at 12:12

--

One of my suggestions was that if settings are to capture X country, you get this message when you try to pick a country:

"The victory condition is to capture X country and hold it for X turns. Are you sure that you want this country?"

נכתב על ידי clovis1122, 23.02.2016 at 12:17

נכתב על ידי W4R_MaChINE, 23.02.2016 at 12:12

--

One of my suggestions was that if settings are to capture X country, you get this message when you try to pick a country:

"The victory condition is to capture X country and hold it for X turns. Are you sure that you want this country?"

Brilliant idea! and easy to implement. This is the type of discussion that moves the game forward! great thinking.