Turkey Guide by Laochra(For Duels)

A common misconception on atwar regarding 10k eu+ east duels is that Ukraine is better than Turkey. This is not true. The reality is that the vast majority of players just suck at Turkey. I can honestly list on 1 hand the number of players over the past few years who have developed good turks. This guide is aimed at correcting that. This guide will also help with imperialist gameplay in general across all settings and how to be efficient and creative when expanding. There are other turk guides on this forum. They're fine for beginners but most of them suck at a higher level. Personally i wouldnt use any of them. If you want to optimise your gameplay, this is the guide for you. I am pretty much past it in regards dueling, so i am happy to reveal this stuff now.

First things first, neutrals. Don't fail your neutrals. You often see guys sending the wrong amounts at neutrals t1 and then failing randomly and fucking up their game. Your inf havent 4 att so you cant just +2 inf vs the number of militia defending.The following amounts almost never fail. I say almost, most have never failed but i have seen some cases of freak rolls. Underlined are the configs i generally use t1 with turk. It is money dependent. On africa for example, you mightnt be able to afford to make any tanks at all.

1 Militia - 2 inf

2 Militia - 4 inf, 3 inf 1 tank, 2 inf 1 tank, 2 tanks

3 Militia - 5 inf, 4 inf 1 tank, 2 inf 2 tanks, 3 tanks

4 Militia - 7 inf, 6 inf 1 tank, 5 inf 1 tank, 4 inf 2 tanks, 4 tanks

5 Militia - 8 inf, 7 inf 1 tank, 5 inf 2 tanks, 4 tanks 2 inf, 5 tanks

6 Militia - 10 inf, 8 inf 1 tank, 6 inf 2 tanks, 4 inf 3 tanks, 1 inf 5 tanks

7 Militia - 11 inf, 10 inf 1 tank, 9 inf 2 tanks, 6 inf 3 tanks, 4 inf 4 tanks, 6 tanks

8 Militia - 13 inf, 11 inf 2 tanks, 8 inf 3 tanks, 4 inf 5 tanks

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General Tips:

• Whatever expansion you use, minimise the number of transports you use. For example a transport made in izmir/istanbul can drop units off for serbia and then be pulled back to the coast to be refilled for greece. You shouldnt be making more than 3 transports for any expansion. Most require 2.
  
  - For example I can use the Izmir trans to drop units off for serbia and then double drop 2 stacks of 15 into athens. It is tight on range but easy enough to do.
  
  
  
  
• Turkeys main strength is its' unit prod. It is a spam country. Mix 1-3 tanks vs neutrals t1 to conserve infantry. Don't expand with naked infantry. You are just wasting inf that can be later used for defence and further expansion. There is a balance to be found here. At the end of t1 you want 800+ money. So do not make so many tanks and transports that you are left with nothing. At the end of t4 if you use all your reins without having to spam militia or without having lots of excess cash then you've found the balance. I sometimes fuck this up myself, especially when rusty.
  
  
• T1 focus on the main balkan capitals. No ukraine will airdrop onto albania/bosnia t1. Well i have seen idiots do it but thats another story. Generally speaking if someone will contest your balkans they will focus on the main capitals. Either send minimum or stack them a bit.
  
  - This is the same for T2. focus on hungary/austria etc. They also have significant income. T3 you can go for periphery cities. Again Turk is a spam country. Take every neutral in your path and maximise your unit prod.
  
  - An efficient and economical turk can in theory drop 150 onto kiev before t9. I have done over 130 in practice. This is after units lost on wfs, tbs and general defense.
  
  
• Don't forget about the numbers advantage in battles. The more you outnumber a target the better your rolls and the less casualties you take. This is why we overstack neutrals t1. It is also why i overstack against enemy player targets where possible. This is extremely important with Turkey. This is also why people accuse me of having unit spam hacks and op imp rolls. I am not a hacker, I am just efficient.
  
  
  
  
• If you are balkan rushed by an opponent who commits most his army to the lower balk t1. I find retaining greece is essential as a turk reinforcement swivel point. You can afford to lose everything else. But whatever you do dont become predictable. Vary your expansions. Maybe stack bulgaria 1 game and not touch it the next. Maybe overstack romania 1 game with gen and send minimum the next. You get the idea.
  
  
• Istanbul is turks richest city and a key port for pressure on ukraine, don't lose it. Romania greece and the upper balkans are also key sources of income that are not to be underestimated.
  
  
• Pay attention to map income. This region alone has 661 income - more than Russia Central. Slovenia is the richest 1 rein city in europe at 80 income. These things add up especially when you're imp.
  
  
  

Important Expansions

There are 4 key expansions you need to know for duels. There are many others like poland, austria and belarus rushes but these 4 and their variants are those that i have found to be the most consistently successful.

1. How to get rome t1 and full Italy t2.

This is the king of turk 1v1 expands and the most economical one there is. Players often dont realise that full italy is almost the same income as full rc. the trans should reach caligari t2. The rest you can take from naples and rome. Learn this expand. youll have 1k income on the start of t3. It allows for explosive expands, rushes and even an at if you want to attack a surprise target. Don't underestimate the power of a sucker kiev rush. Talk to Don.




2. How to get Russia South t1.

This is a pretty solid all round expand. Particularly useful vs the tank/inf based strats and gw which rely on the rostov and odessa ports to pressure turk. You can lockoff that option from them. It also leaves plenty of units to stack the balkans with should you fear a rush. And it has a nice little income boost as a side bonus.

3. How to get hungary t1 with an AT.

People have posted the expand so i am not reposting but it is pretty easy to do anyway. The at gives you options of attack or expansion behind enemy lines. You could also use it to get into scandi or benelux early.

4. Basic Turk.

This expand is simple, gives you lots of options and counters rushes.




Common Mistakes

• Imp turk is king. Almost anything pd turk can do imp can do better. The exception being a t3/4 rush.
  
  
• Don't be that guy who expands t1 as imp then fucks all his units into lviv and istanbul for a t3 kiev rush. It is a shitty way to play turk and it wont work vs any half decent ukraine. A good turk can outslowroll anything. Even the dreaded gw ukraine. Learn.
  

GW Ukraine

I have decided to add a section on this particular ukraine strat since it gives people a lot of trouble. Many players think it is op. If you are efficient and meticulous, gw ukraine is actually easy to beat even in the hands of a top tier player. This is because in Ukraine it almost always tries to do the same thing and it has several exploitable weaknesses. Their t1 expand will nearly always contain rnw and rc. Then some combo of poland belarus, lith/latvia and rs and in some cases austria or hungary. The best thing to do is play gw yourself to figure out its limitations. Heres what you need to know.

1. There will be minimal cap pressure. Gw is not a rush strat and in order to ankara rush, they can only use ats or russia south. If you get russia south youve almost nothing to worry about other than perhaps a few stray marines hitting turk cities. What this means is that you can focus most your units freely on expansion. I should also mention that even if they do cap you it is extremely difficult for them to reinforce and hold. Expensive transports and low range militia arent a good combo. This is unless they succeeded in getting some of turks cities too. Specifically izmir istanbul and bursa. Otherwise recapping should be no problem.

2. T1 gw cannot contest expansion. If the ukraine player tries it then they are not playing gw properly and will likely get wrecked. Gw is all about expansion and grabbing as much spawn as possible. Gw is the weakest strat in the game at contesting expansion due to the stats of the starting inf. That means that if you go hungary austria rs or belarus and they do. They will lose and this will hurt them a lot. T2 their expansion contesting ability improves a little with the free militia from expansion. If they went hungary or austria. You should stack the surrounding cities in case they try to grab more land in that area. You can take the periphery less relavant balkan cities later. If you retain the full balkans(or almost) t5 then they're pretty fucked. This leads to my next point.

3. After t2/3 expansion the ukraine player will have marines maneuvering towards the balkans. Don't worry too much about latemoves t3. If you think a city will be latemoved, just make sure there is no spawn left in it. Expand and grab spawn. You can easily recap since they cant reinforce the cities without using expensive ats. For them it is not a worthwhile investment. T4 you can almost always guarantee that they'll try and take 1 or more of your main balkan capitals. Austria hungary serbia and romania specifically are under threat Since thats where the marines will mainly be. Again use the tb/priorities system to your advantage defensively. As your last moves shift units into cities likely to be hit. Similarly pull units out of unlikely cities to be hit late and move them into high priority ones. For example put slovak militia in hung or austria. pristina militia into bulgaria. Varna militia into romania. Or move bulgaria infantry into serbia, then into hungary in case thats hit. I hope i am being clear on what i mean here.

4. No matter which turk expansion you pick you should be looking at 160-210 units at the start of t5. A successful gw ukraine will be doing well if they manage around 130. If theyve more it is probably because you let turk cities get taken or lost half your balkans. So there is no reason you shouldnt be able to outspam them and beat them lategame.

A game i spectated recently between acqui and commando is a good example. Acqui did a standard italy t1 expand and full ita t2. Commando went poland, and then poland cities, czech and slovak. Acqui had double walled and walled bursa and izmir. He had left too many units behind in Turkey and his expansion suffered as a result. His upper balkan presense wasn't strong enough. Commando gained too strong a foothold in the upper balkans and outspammed him as a result. Keep them out of the balkans and you can wreck them lategame.

DS Ukraine

Another ukraine strat people seem to have trouble with. Personally I believe Turk has the advantage in this battle. Ds ukr has to take a lot of risks to gain advantage. They either need to full rush the balkans or they need a partial rush on 1 or 2 of the main balkan caps in order to slow your expansion.

1. If a ds player full rushes your balkans, just try and grab spawn whereever possible and dont be afraid to use anti-airs. A turk player should always leave a rein or 2 in ankara/istanbul for that purpose. Maybe divert 4 units to a city like switz etc for money but pull all the rest of your units into range of turk to hold. If they havent expanded, they have to either kill or cripple you by t5 or theyre fucked. __

2. For Slowroll DS plays you need to secure the money. Firstly you need full italy asap so you can go on the offensive. Then you need to get as much spawn as possible. t4 you recap anything youve lost.

- A ds slowroller wants to get to a point where they can spam helis and go fully on the offensive. For that they need to establish themselves in the west, specifically bene and london/paris.

- Use your italy units to push hard on that area. If you engage in a tradeoffs with them, swapping the countries back and forth its enough as it reduces the income of that area through collateral and prevents them establishing the 100% income. Divert some units to spain and snowball through that area to drive them from the west.

- Even a ds with full scandi and russia can be slowrolled against as long as it is kept out of the bene/paris london region and prevented from uniting full germany(theyll get berlin but thats only a 250 income cap. There's no reason you should let them get full country bonus.)
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Overall Turk is a fun country once you master it. You'll feel like a boss once you master it. But you need good micro and fast hands. Anyway if i think of anything else i'll add to this. Feel free to ask any questions. Enjoy the Autism.

Edit: This is marked for duels as it is the focus. But there is lots of useful info for teamgames here too.

I think the only way to truly master turkey is to know what ukraine is going to want to do as well............ where should ukr and turk be at t3 t4/ as in where should the expansions be at if both are playing optimally and either side can win?

Very nice

נכתב על ידי Permamuted, 19.05.2017 at 20:17

If you are a blitz turk rusher then you should be shot.[/list]

shoot me...

נכתב על ידי Checkmate., 19.05.2017 at 21:01

I think the only way to truly master turkey is to know what ukraine is going to want to do as well............ where should ukr and turk be at t3 t4/ as in where should the expansions be at if both are playing optimally and either side can win?

with what ukr strat?

Good guide. thanks lao. I'll probably still stay with my GW turkey, but you are right this is much more well rounded. Thanks!
-Freeland

I think Turkey is the first country I've been taught, not the rolls, but the points on which I need to expand and also the pd rush. I've heared players saying is the most boring/less creative country. I think its the country with almost the same or even richer perspective of expansion as the other queen countries of Europe. Thx for the guide, it helps!

Omer Pasa Lao, boring spammer D

Better show to low ranks how they can rush...

נכתב על ידי Mauzer Panteri, 20.05.2017 at 02:49

Better show to low ranks how they can rush...

Why bother? If they can't figure out how to rush themselves, they shouldn't play AW

Solid explanation!Thanks for sharinng.

נכתב על ידי LukeTan, 19.05.2017 at 21:13

Your dream guide

Lao trying to become mod again xaxa

נכתב על ידי Checkmate., 19.05.2017 at 21:01

I think the only way to truly master turkey is to know what ukraine is going to want to do as well............ where should ukr and turk be at t3 t4/ as in where should the expansions be at if both are playing optimally and either side can win?

Well that helps. specifically with gw because you can't see their units. To beat a gw ukraine you must be a gw ukraine. I am considering adding a gw ukr section since people often ask how to beat it.

נכתב על ידי Mauzer Panteri, 20.05.2017 at 02:49

Omer Pasa Lao, boring spammer D

Better show to low ranks how they can rush...

That's mks job. D

Can you add a short paragraph on playing when an italy/greece is present?

נכתב על ידי LukeTan, 20.05.2017 at 06:05

Can you add a short paragraph on playing when an italy/greece is present?

Rush albania

נכתב על ידי LukeTan, 20.05.2017 at 06:05

Can you add a short paragraph on playing when an italy/greece is present?

I will give you a short view of what you can do.

First of all I would suggest you to big wall in case you are double rushed.
As Turkey with Italy opponent you have 2 options:Hit some main countries with stacks and maybe wall the rest , or go light everywhere.People sometimes prefer going RS as well which personally I don't find it a bad idea but I would prefer an AT to Hungary.

That's a general view and totally casual explanation so expect some "blanks" and some mistakes in it.

Wish i could upvote you 5 more times , nice guide Lao and thanks.

נכתב על ידי Darkmace, 20.05.2017 at 06:58

Amazing guide, read the whole thing. Only question is when you gave the unit amounts to kill neutrals, what strategy were you referring to? PD or IMP?

IMP

"... This guide will also help with imperialist gameplay "

נכתב על ידי Waffel, 20.05.2017 at 04:33

Lao trying to become mod again xaxa

P.S. I'm gonna start harassing you.

Basically you've started the guide saying how we all suck at Turkey and attempt to taught us how to play it.

Nonetheless ignoring the wrong premises, the content of this guide is pretty good. I'm just gonna assume that somehow it works. For the sake of different points of views though, I'll make some remarks:

1. I'd argue against sending 1 tank anywhere. I myself overuse the 2 infs 1 tank vs 2 militia but mostly due to lazyness. The truth is, that theses battles often leads to tie between the tank and the militia, trust making it hard to actually exploit it's purpose (efficiency).

This is more visible in 1 infantry 1 tank vs 1 militia, and why only few people does it (if you do, please don't, here's why). Make it:

- 1st roll: Tank roll 6, Militia roll 4
- 2nd roll: Tank roll 4, Militia roll 4.

You would expect that the Militias dies, but it won't. Due to the tie clause you'll end losing your tank, and the militia will remain alive with an unknown amount of HP. Whereas this is not the case for 2 infantries vs 1 militia.

Similar situation happens with 2 infantries 1 tank vs 2 militias, which makes it hard for the tank to remain alive, even if he successfully managed to kill both Militias. Your infantries will also have to fight the militias at an unknown amount of HP.

Zone, one of the greatest Turkey player that I've encountered against once told me that it is indeed important to send enough so that your tanks remains alive. While this is true and is the most optimal way to play Turkey, it is pretty hard to master. I would say that in the modern Turkey gameplay, the hardest question is to know how much tanks are enough for an expansion.

Attempting to answer the previous question, I've used my calculation to obtain the optimal combination of Infantries/Tanks against certain neutrals, which is also income-efficient and both reinf efficient. By correlating both I've found this good rule of thump: for a key balance you should send at least half of the neutral militia's counts into Tanks, Rounded to the smallest integer. You should also mix it with N infantries, where the N means the number of militias.

The rule applies nicely when N > 3. Some examples:

4 Militias => 4 infs, 2 tanks.
5 Militias => 5 infs, 2 tanks.
6 Militias => 6 infs, 3 tanks.
8 Militias => 8 infs, 4 tanks.

Is to be noted that this doesn't account the general bonus. So for places like Greece (8 militias) I'd usually send 7 infs 3 tanks and gen. All of theses have a winning percent of 93% or more against Neutrals.

You can choose to send more units than that or buy more tanks, and that will improve your reinf-efficiency at the cost of cost-efficiency. The opposite is true if you reemplace the tanks with infantries or attempt to go optimal.

2. A good rule of thumb to know 'how good' is your expansion is to account the number of units that you have by T2. Great Turkey expansions can gather more than 95 units. If you don't get this amount, then either you're being rewarded by some economical gain, or you're being inefficient.

Similarity, another test that I use to test how flexible my expansion is consist on doing a T3 IMP Turkey Rush. If you can consistently get more than 400 attack (displayed stats) on Kiev, then your rush is pretty good. The idea is to avoid overexpansion and/or setting up positions that aren't flexible at all.

3. Getting Cluj T1 greatly pays it off. Bosnia also does, but to a less extent. Moldova, although a bit riskier pays off. If you're planning to lategame, then taking full Caucasus T1 with a trans from samsung is your best option. For PD rushes, the latter statement is a must if you want to grow up the number of units at kiev T3.

Getting Albania is better than Kosovo/Serbia due to more income and independent capital (works great in cases, like, when serbia get rushed). Bulgaria's port and Greek's Thessaloniki are also great.

4. Don't go Hungary t1. This is so overused that most Ukraine will either overstack the place or wont go for it at all. If you're planning to go for it though, then sending 25 units + general is the safest way to go.

5. Making an outer wall T1 is pretty good, specially for Turkey. I'd recommend it and use it in almost all my games. Unlike the big wall showed in the picture though, I'd expend 3 militias to make a complete double wall - this is a lot safer, and won't get you into unneeded arguments.

6. Using your newly gained Militias T2 to expand and using infantries to wall Balkans gives you a greater flexibility in middle game, but doesn't pays well on very early or in late game. Use it as needed.

7. Don't be afraid of suiciding 5 units to get a TB in Warsaw or Belarus - Turkey can give itself this luxury, and is pretty dang strong.

8. This guide contains the basic lineaments for a successful Turkey to follow, as well as some expansions. It is mostly oriented to 3vs3, but many of the things there can be used for duels. Feel free to use them as you need. https://atwar-game.com/forum/topic.php?topic_id=17391

9. Just by looking at this video you could become a better Turkey:



Ideally you should seek to do the hardest expansions, not for the meant of memorization. They often requires some precise range skills which you can acquire by doing them.

נכתב על ידי clovis1122, 20.05.2017 at 11:16

Basically you've started the guide saying how we all suck at Turkey and attempt to taught us how to play it.

Nonetheless ignoring the wrong premises, the content of this guide is pretty good. I'm just gonna assume that somehow it works. For the sake of different points of views though, I'll make some remarks:

1. I'd argue against sending 1 tank anywhere. I myself overuse the 2 infs 1 tank vs 2 militia but mostly due to lazyness. The truth is, that theses battles often leads to tie between the tank and the militia, trust making it hard to actually exploit it's purpose (efficiency).

This is more visible in 1 infantry 1 tank vs 1 militia, and why only few people does it (if you do, please don't, here's why). Make it:

- 1st roll: Tank roll 6, Militia roll 4
- 2nd roll: Tank roll 4, Militia roll 4.

You would expect that the Militias dies, but it won't. Due to the tie clause you'll end losing your tank, and the militia will remain alive with an unknown amount of HP. Whereas this is not the case for 2 infantries vs 1 militia.

Similar situation happens with 2 infantries 1 tank vs 2 militias, which makes it hard for the tank to remain alive, even if he successfully managed to kill both Militias. Your infantries will also have to fight the militias at an unknown amount of HP.

Zone, one of the greatest Turkey player that I've encountered against once told me that it is indeed important to send enough so that your tanks remains alive. While this is true and is the most optimal way to play Turkey, it is pretty hard to master. I would say that in the modern Turkey gameplay, the hardest question is to know how much tanks are enough for an expansion.

Attempting to answer the previous question, I've used my calculation to obtain the optimal combination of Infantries/Tanks against certain neutrals, which is also income-efficient and both reinf efficient. By correlating both I've found this good rule of thump: for a key balance you should send at least half of the neutral militia's counts into Tanks, Rounded to the smallest integer. You should also mix it with N infantries, where the N means the number of militias.

The rule applies nicely when N > 3. Some examples:

4 Militias => 4 infs, 2 tanks.
5 Militias => 5 infs, 2 tanks.
6 Militias => 6 infs, 3 tanks.
8 Militias => 8 infs, 4 tanks.

Is to be noted that this doesn't account the general bonus. So for places like Greece (8 militias) I'd usually send 7 infs 3 tanks and gen. All of theses have a winning percent of 93% or more against Neutrals.

You can choose to send more units than that or buy more tanks, and that will improve your reinf-efficiency at the cost of cost-efficiency. The opposite is true if you reemplace the tanks with infantries or attempt to go optimal.

2. A good rule of thumb to know 'how good' is your expansion is to account the number of units that you have by T2. Great Turkey expansions can gather more than 95 units. If you don't get this amount, then either you're being rewarded by some economical gain, or you're being inefficient.

Similarity, another test that I use to test how flexible my expansion is consist on doing a T3 IMP Turkey Rush. If you can consistently get more than 400 attack (displayed stats) on Kiev, then your rush is pretty good. The idea is to avoid overexpansion and/or setting up positions that aren't flexible at all.

3. Getting Cluj T1 greatly pays it off. Bosnia also does, but to a less extent. Moldova, although a bit riskier pays off. If you're planning to lategame, then taking full Caucasus T1 with a trans from samsung is your best option. For PD rushes, the latter statement is a must if you want to grow up the number of units at kiev T3.

Getting Albania is better than Kosovo/Serbia due to more income and independent capital (works great in cases, like, when serbia get rushed). Bulgaria's port and Greek's Thessaloniki are also great.

4. Don't go Hungary t1. This is so overused that most Ukraine will either overstack the place or wont go for it at all. If you're planning to go for it though, then sending 25 units + general is the safest way to go.

5. Making an outer wall T1 is pretty good, specially for Turkey. I'd recommend it and use it in almost all my games. Unlike the big wall showed in the picture though, I'd expend 3 militias to make a complete double wall - this is a lot safer, and won't get you into unneeded arguments.

6. Using your newly gained Militias T2 to expand and using infantries to wall Balkans gives you a greater flexibility in middle game, but doesn't pays well on very early or in late game. Use it as needed.

7. Don't be afraid of suiciding 5 units to get a TB in Warsaw or Belarus - Turkey can give itself this luxury, and is pretty dang strong.

8. This guide contains the basic lineaments for a successful Turkey to follow, as well as some expansions. It is mostly oriented to 3vs3, but many of the things there can be used for duels. Feel free to use them as you need. https://atwar-game.com/forum/topic.php?topic_id=17391

9. Just by looking at this video you could become a better Turkey:



Ideally you should seek to do the hardest expansions, not for the meant of memorization. They often requires some precise range skills which you can acquire by doing them.

Calm down clovis, no need to attempt to insult laochra every post.
Great video though

נכתב על ידי LukeTan, 20.05.2017 at 11:20

Calm down clovis, no need to attempt to insult laochra every post.

נכתב על ידי Permamuted, 19.05.2017 at 20:17

The reality is that the vast majority of players just suck at Turkey. I can honestly list on 1 hand the number of players over the past few years who have developed good turks.

נכתב על ידי Permamuted, 19.05.2017 at 20:17

There are other turk guides on this forum. They're fine for beginners but most of them suck at a higher level. Personally i wouldnt use any of them.

Do you think lao have the right to say how our gameplay suck with no further proof?

His strategies may works but so do our. In fact one of theses Turkey which he claims that sucks got his Kiev walled by T4, with moscow rnw and finland stoled. Twice. Also 4 wins in a row.

But I've already stated that here:

נכתב על ידי clovis1122, 20.05.2017 at 11:16

Nonetheless ignoring the wrong premises, the content of this guide is pretty good. I'm just gonna assume that somehow it works. For the sake of different points of views though, I'll make some remarks:

נכתב על ידי LukeTan, 20.05.2017 at 06:05

Can you add a short paragraph on playing when an italy/greece is present?

I want to keep it focused on duels. But i suggest learning how to get 29 and gen into serbia with pd. Trans from ist over to in front of ankara, load it with gen and 14, move it to istanbul and make another trans and move the units towards serbia. they just about reach. Greece is key though. Stacking it is nearly always a good play as you keep a key turk reinforcement point as well as a key italy pressure point.It also can be used to attack anywhere in the balkans. If you lose greece it really hurts.

In general with any teamgame pick you need to identify your role. With greece/italy enemy it is to survive as long as possible while your allies take advantage of the freedom to grow strong. So pd is the way to go.

Waiting for this thread to like become another flamewar thread between... we all know between who xaxa..

נכתב על ידי Waffel, 20.05.2017 at 11:58

Waiting for this thread like to become another flamewar thread between... we all know between who xaxa..

נכתב על ידי Steve Aoki, 20.05.2017 at 12:01

נכתב על ידי Waffel, 20.05.2017 at 11:58

Waiting for this thread like to become another flamewar thread between... we all know between who xaxa..

Nice picture of my general

נכתב על ידי Waffel, 20.05.2017 at 12:03

נכתב על ידי Steve Aoki, 20.05.2017 at 12:01

נכתב על ידי Waffel, 20.05.2017 at 11:58

Waiting for this thread like to become another flamewar thread between... we all know between who xaxa..

Nice picture of my general

Thanks

I am going to ignore the insults and the attempts to troll me. I am just going to address the useful content.

נכתב על ידי clovis1122, 20.05.2017 at 11:16

Basically you've started the guide saying how we all suck at Turkey and attempt to taught us how to play it.

I am sorry but this is 100% true. I would list myself you zone and prometheus as top tier turks. I would then list acqui, don, heat check, dinoscout, eagles and opi as strong turk players who could improve a few things. I might have forgotten a few names but out of all the people i've played the majority suck. Sorry if this bothers you. I don't need to post proof. I also don't care if you disagree.

נכתב על ידי clovis1122, 20.05.2017 at 11:16

1. I'd argue against sending 1 tank anywhere. I myself overuse the 2 infs 1 tank vs 2 militia but mostly due to lazyness. The truth is, that theses battles often leads to tie between the tank and the militia, trust making it hard to actually exploit it's purpose (efficiency).

This is more visible in 1 infantry 1 tank vs 1 militia, and why only few people does it (if you do, please don't, here's why). Make it:

- 1st roll: Tank roll 6, Militia roll 4
- 2nd roll: Tank roll 4, Militia roll 4.

You would expect that the Militias dies, but it won't. Due to the tie clause you'll end losing your tank, and the militia will remain alive with an unknown amount of HP. Whereas this is not the case for 2 infantries vs 1 militia.

Similar situation happens with 2 infantries 1 tank vs 2 militias, which makes it hard for the tank to remain alive, even if he successfully managed to kill both Militias. Your infantries will also have to fight the militias at an unknown amount of HP.

Yea true it is why i didn't list the 1 inf 1 tank in expansion options. I didnt realise that problem existed with 1 tank 2 militias but i have seen that fail albeit very rarely. Sometimes though i am willing to take the risk. It is rarely game deciding. I must add a note on this.

נכתב על ידי clovis1122, 20.05.2017 at 11:16

Zone, one of the greatest Turkey player that I've encountered against once told me that it is indeed important to send enough so that your tanks remains alive. While this is true and is the most optimal way to play Turkey, it is pretty hard to master. I would say that in the modern Turkey gameplay, the hardest question is to know how much tanks are enough for an expansion.

Attempting to answer the previous question, I've used my calculation to obtain the optimal combination of Infantries/Tanks against certain neutrals, which is also income-efficient and both reinf efficient. By correlating both I've found this good rule of thump: for a key balance you should send at least half of the neutral militia's counts into Tanks, Rounded to the smallest integer. You should also mix it with N infantries, where the N means the number of militias.

The rule applies nicely when N > 3. Some examples:

4 Militias => 4 infs, 2 tanks.
5 Militias => 5 infs, 2 tanks.
6 Militias => 6 infs, 3 tanks.
8 Militias => 8 infs, 4 tanks.

Is to be noted that this doesn't account the general bonus. So for places like Greece (8 militias) I'd usually send 7 infs 3 tanks and gen. All of theses have a winning percent of 93% or more against Neutrals.

You can choose to send more units than that or buy more tanks, and that will improve your reinf-efficiency at the cost of cost-efficiency. The opposite is true if you reemplace the tanks with infantries or attempt to go optimal.

I disagree with zone on this. You just don't have the finances to do that. Around t2-t5 you haven't the money to keep sending those tank numbers at neutrals. And sometimes it is more important to grab as much land as possible rather than meticulously trying to conserve infantry.

נכתב על ידי clovis1122, 20.05.2017 at 11:16

2. A good rule of thumb to know 'how good' is your expansion is to account the number of units that you have by T2. Great Turkey expansions can gather more than 95 units. If you don't get this amount, then either you're being rewarded by some economical gain, or you're being inefficient.

Similarity, another test that I use to test how flexible my expansion is consist on doing a T3 IMP Turkey Rush. If you can consistently get more than 400 attack (displayed stats) on Kiev, then your rush is pretty good. The idea is to avoid overexpansion and/or setting up positions that aren't flexible at all.

Interesting. I don't read into the early numbers too much. T4 though i expect from 160 -210 on the unit count board. Only blitz and ds ukraine can get over 160 but they have other weaknesses.

נכתב על ידי clovis1122, 20.05.2017 at 11:16

3. Getting Cluj T1 greatly pays it off. Bosnia also does, but to a less extent. Moldova, although a bit riskier pays off. If you're planning to lategame, then taking full Caucasus T1 with a trans from samsung is your best option. For PD rushes, the latter statement is a must if you want to grow up the number of units at kiev T3.

Getting Albania is better than Kosovo/Serbia due to more income and independent capital (works great in cases, like, when serbia get rushed). Bulgaria's port and Greek's Thessaloniki are also great.

Yea moldova has its' place. I am hoping people will be a bit more creative with their expansions rather than sticking to templates. It is why i mentioned the transport numbers and t2 money you should be aiming for. The rome expand i posted was just an example of what people should be aiming for. But i feel i might regret posting it if i see players using the exact same thing over and over.

נכתב על ידי clovis1122, 20.05.2017 at 11:16

4. Don't go Hungary t1. This is so overused that most Ukraine will either overstack the place or wont go for it at all. If you're planning to go for it though, then sending 25 units + general is the safest way to go.

Disagree. I should have(and will addto the guide) mentioned you can get up to 20 and a gen in there( i dont know how you get 25 and gen but no ukraine commits to it that hard). But yea it is always good to vary up your expands. Don't become predictable. Zones main weakness was that he never went hungary or rs. I don;t think he believed in the transport investment. You always knew what hed do.

נכתב על ידי clovis1122, 20.05.2017 at 11:16

5. Making an outer wall T1 is pretty good, specially for Turkey. I'd recommend it and use it in almost all my games. Unlike the big wall showed in the picture though, I'd expend 3 militias to make a complete double wall - this is a lot safer, and won't get you into unneeded arguments.

6. Using your newly gained Militias T2 to expand and using infantries to wall Balkans gives you a greater flexibility in middle game, but doesn't pays well on very early or in late game. Use it as needed.

7. Don't be afraid of suiciding 5 units to get a TB in Warsaw or Belarus - Turkey can give itself this luxury, and is pretty dang strong.

8. This guide contains the basic lineaments for a successful Turkey to follow, as well as some expansions. It is mostly oriented to 3vs3, but many of the things there can be used for duels. Feel free to use them as you need. https://atwar-game.com/forum/topic.php?topic_id=17391

9. Just by looking at this video you could become a better Turkey:



Ideally you should seek to do the hardest expansions, not for the meant of memorization. They often requires some precise range skills which you can acquire by doing them.

Yea the rest of this is solid advice. I'll add some of it.

נכתב על ידי clovis1122, 20.05.2017 at 11:16

except big walls, big walls for noobs

נכתב על ידי Waffel, 20.05.2017 at 11:58

Waiting for this thread to like become another flamewar thread between... we all know between who xaxa..

Steve Aoki and your mom ?