-1 defense for RA Tanks.

To lead all the RA debates to somewhere, let's just discuss about this simple proposal. After this, if implemented then we can look further into the strategy.

I'd like this, but I think cost needs to be at the lowest 100, ideally 110-120. Their too strong as is at 90 cost

Why should we allow the community to decide? Why should a r3 who has played for 5 days log the forum and then be allowed to decide how to balance the strategies in the metagame? Logic, reasoning and supporting evidence decide the balance of the strategies. Only experienced players with half a brain can provide this. Polls are useless.

Just nerf everything and buff pd not a big deal

None of the above? Why do we have to choose -1 def for tanks?

נכתב על ידי Permamuted, 12.07.2015 at 15:25

Why should we allow the community to decide? Why should a r3 who has played for 5 days log the forum and then be allowed to decide how to balance the strategies in the metagame? Logic, reasoning and supporting evidence decide the balance of the strategies. Only experienced players with half a brain can provide this. Polls are useless.

well we certanly cant let people like you decide , or else half of strats would be nerfed already

נכתב על ידי AlBoZzZ, 12.07.2015 at 16:41

נכתב על ידי Permamuted, 12.07.2015 at 15:25

Why should we allow the community to decide? Why should a r3 who has played for 5 days log the forum and then be allowed to decide how to balance the strategies in the metagame? Logic, reasoning and supporting evidence decide the balance of the strategies. Only experienced players with half a brain can provide this. Polls are useless.

well we certanly cant let people like you decide , or else half of strats would be nerfed already

What are you talking about? If you disagree with any of lao's ideas then make it clear and explain using logic and reason in order to convince people to agree with you. Attacking lao's ideas just because you dislike him is just wrong.

נכתב על ידי Tundy, 12.07.2015 at 20:47

נכתב על ידי AlBoZzZ, 12.07.2015 at 16:41

נכתב על ידי Permamuted, 12.07.2015 at 15:25

Why should we allow the community to decide? Why should a r3 who has played for 5 days log the forum and then be allowed to decide how to balance the strategies in the metagame? Logic, reasoning and supporting evidence decide the balance of the strategies. Only experienced players with half a brain can provide this. Polls are useless.

well we certanly cant let people like you decide , or else half of strats would be nerfed already

What are you talking about? If you disagree with any of lao's ideas then make it clear and explain using logic and reason in order to convince people to agree with you. Attacking lao's ideas just because you dislike him is just wrong.

And what makes u think lao has right in his first sentence underestimate the community.does lao knows mods are servants of this community !

נכתב על ידי Permamuted, 12.07.2015 at 15:25

Why should we allow the community to decide? Why should a r3 who has played for 5 days log the forum and then be allowed to decide how to balance the strategies in the metagame? Logic, reasoning and supporting evidence decide the balance of the strategies. Only experienced players with half a brain can provide this. Polls are useless.

Oh yeah your logic is sooo out of the sky. Let some hypocrits decide and lets forget about the community. A wake up call for you --> their are almost non -5 ranks very active on the forums. But hey some people just feel better again. Playing cw's doesnt make you a king' ra can be used in scenario's 2 you know.

Oh yeah just for the record. The i can live with it and the i dont agree must be complementaly looked on couse it both represents players who dont realy support a nerf.

Nerf RA and buff SM.

Guys, please.

First of all, for what I've read in all those threads, this is one of the boost with less players against. Increasing cost, -2 defense, and those kind of Nerf have a stronger opposition. So why cannot we just debate about this one?

Second, do you think players would vote (yes) / (I can live with it) in the poll, if I had choose another Nerf? Of course no, it would just bring more debate, stronger opposition, etc. As I said in the first comment, if all those debates want to reach somewhere then let's just focus on this Nerf.

If the result keep going as they are, this Nerf will happen. After that you guys can feel free to make your own poll about RA Nerf and let's see what the community decides. But this is a pretty basic one.

נכתב על ידי Azula., 13.07.2015 at 02:53

Oh yeah just for the record. The i can live with it and the i dont agree must be complementaly looked on couse it both represents players who dont realy support a nerf.

You are right, there can be players who doesn't support RA as it is, but doesn't support the -1def either. But since the poll is so advanced I guess is too late for remake it...

נכתב על ידי Tundy, 12.07.2015 at 20:47

Attacking lao's ideas just because you dislike him is just wrong.

It is not. Any player is free to express his disagreement. He doesn't have to agree with anything just because is "logical".

נכתב על ידי Permamuted, 12.07.2015 at 15:25

Why should we allow the community to decide? Why should a r3 who has played for 5 days log the forum and then be allowed to decide how to balance the strategies in the metagame? Logic, reasoning and supporting evidence decide the balance of the strategies. Only experienced players with half a brain can provide this. Polls are useless.

From my personal believe logic is indeed, useless. There's way too much subjectivity in the world to make objectivity any useful. Doesn't matter how well-construct are your arguments, the masses have the final decision.

An hypothetical case: Let's say RA get nerfed to be useless. Then, the masses would stop playing the strategy, some of them would stop supporting the game, and this is a loss for the admins. And be sure that using logic is not better than using a poll, to determine what the community wants. Maybe interviewing each one provides better results....

So, would you rather want a player to leave the game, if he doesn't support "your logic"? As Ivan says once, most of the changes they made in the past had popular choice. For every change they made, 2 people would be happy, and one would rage. And this is a good scenario !

That's a good point that people like to play it. Let's leave it alone. There are more important things in life to keep talking about this.

צטט:

נכתב על ידי klevis, 13.07.2015 at 02:31

What are you talking about? If you disagree with any of lao's ideas then make it clear and explain using logic and reason in order to convince people to agree with you. Attacking lao's ideas just because you dislike him is just wrong.

And what makes u think lao has right in his first sentence underestimate the community.does lao knows mods are servants of this community !

Perhaps because the community is full of RP-fags? you maybe don't see it because competitive games isolate you from the rest of atwar

נכתב על ידי Azula., 13.07.2015 at 02:50

Oh yeah your logic is sooo out of the sky.

Then use "your" logic to convince people that he is wrong

נכתב על ידי Azula., 13.07.2015 at 02:50

Let some hypocrits decide and lets forget about the community.

Nice personal attack that adds nothing of value to the argument

נכתב על ידי Azula., 13.07.2015 at 02:50

A wake up call for you --> their are almost non -5 ranks very active on the forums.

Because they don't care

נכתב על ידי Azula., 13.07.2015 at 02:50

But hey some people just feel better again. Playing cw's doesnt make you a king' ra can be used in scenario's 2 you know.

Don't worry, Lao does not need to be a pro in scenarios because a pro in scenarios already agrees with him (Me)
RA is stronger in scenarios than in Europe 3v3, so yes it needs a nerf.

נכתב על ידי clovis1122, 13.07.2015 at 07:18

You are right, there can be players who doesn't support RA as it is, but doesn't support the -1def either. But since the poll is so advanced I guess is too late for remake it...

The poll is meaningless, only the opinion of people with experience and skill matter

נכתב על ידי clovis1122, 13.07.2015 at 07:18

It is not. Any player is free to express his disagreement. He doesn't have to agree with anything just because is "logical".

You misunderstand me, i meant to say that people should not disagree just because they hate the person that proposed the idea

נכתב על ידי clovis1122, 13.07.2015 at 07:18

From my personal believe logic is indeed, useless. There's way too much subjectivity in the world to make objectivity any useful. Doesn't matter how well-construct are your arguments, the masses have the final decision.

The masses?
This is not a democracy, this is a videogame

נכתב על ידי clovis1122, 13.07.2015 at 07:18

An hypothetical case: Let's say RA get nerfed to be useless. Then, the masses would stop playing the strategy, some of them would stop supporting the game, and this is a loss for the admins. And be sure that using logic is not better than using a poll, to determine what the community wants. Maybe interviewing each one provides better results....

Sorry but its a proven fact that dedicated players are more likely to buy premium than bystanders. If you leave just because they nerf 1 strategy then you were not planning to stay in afterwind for long.
For example take a look to all the shit that happen to map makers(we are also premium), we got trolled and got the middle finger by the mods and admins like 3 times in a row, yet we didn't leave.

נכתב על ידי clovis1122, 13.07.2015 at 07:18

So, would you rather want a player to leave the game, if he doesn't support "your logic"? As Ivan says once, most of the changes they made in the past had popular choice. For every change they made, 2 people would be happy, and one would rage. And this is a good scenario !

All ranks 1-5 could just leave atwar at the same time, and you will still fail to notice the difference because you only play competitive games with ranks 8+ and scenarios with ranks 8+

נכתב על ידי Tundy, 13.07.2015 at 09:10

There's a thread about RA running at the moment. Please feel free to delete all your comments and bring them there. Here we are just talking about -1 defense.

Remove all strategies so we don't have anymore 'nerf this because i lost to it' thread

נכתב על ידי Skittzophrenic, 13.07.2015 at 18:45

Remove all strategies so we don't have anymore 'nerf this because i lost to it' thread

Agreed!

Cry poll

Didn't know where to post this :/ ...RA still a bit too powerful, i played Turk RA today and i think it could be a good pick for 3v3 with funds.

נכתב על ידי Permamuted, 12.07.2015 at 15:25

Why should we allow the community to decide? Why should a r3 who has played for 5 days log the forum and then be allowed to decide how to balance the strategies in the metagame? Logic, reasoning and supporting evidence decide the balance of the strategies. Only experienced players with half a brain can provide this. Polls are useless.

Lao wanted to say:
"
BLITZZ NEEDS NERF:
-99999 attack
-99999 deffence
-99999 range
+99999 cost
-99999 roll
-99999 hp

DS NEEDS NERF:
-99999 attack
-99999 deffence
-99999 range
+99999 cost
-99999 roll
-99999 hp

GC NEEDS NERF
-99999 attack
-99999 deffence
-99999 range
+99999 cost
-99999 roll
-99999 hp

GW NEEDS NERF
-99999 attack
-99999 deffence
-99999 range
+99999 cost
-99999 roll
-99999 hp

HW MEEDS NERF
-99999 attack
-99999 deffence
-99999 range
+99999 cost
-99999 roll
-99999 hp

IMP NEEDS NERF
-99999 attack
-99999 deffence
-99999 range
+99999 cost
-99999 roll
-99999 hp

LB NEEDS NERF
-99999 attack
-99999 deffence
-99999 range
+99999 cost
-99999 roll
-99999 hp

MOS NEEDS NERF
-99999 attack
-99999 deffence
-99999 range
+99999 cost
-99999 roll
-99999 hp

NC NEEDS NERF
-99999 attack
-99999 deffence
-99999 range
+99999 cost
-99999 roll
-99999 hp

RA NEEDS NERF
-99999 attack
-99999 deffence
-99999 range
+99999 cost
-99999 roll
-99999 hp

SM NEEDS NERF
-99999 attack
-99999 deffence
-99999 range
+99999 cost
-99999 roll
-99999 hp

PD NEEDS BUFF
NEEDS NERF
+99999 attack
+99999 deffence
+99999 range
-99999 cost
+99999 roll
+99999 hp

IF NEEDS BUFF
NEEDS NERF
+99999 attack
+99999 deffence
+99999 range
-99999 cost
+99999 roll
+99999 hp

Im happy now
(after 2 days)
RA NEEDS NERF,1 100000TANKS KILLED 1PD MILITIA.
"

Now what i say.
If we hear what lao wants,this game will be stopped to be produced and hosted.
Why?Ra is what all noobs are playing,who will donate for premium in future if he leaves game bcs he thinks its unbalanced?no one.
No money,no supporting game,no support,no hosting,no hosting,no site,no site,NO GAME NOOB.

Agreed. Without RA we wouldn't have noobs. Without noobs we wouldn't have more people to support and buy stuff. We can't nerf RA because without RA, we have no noobs. Without noobs, this game will have a lot less players. RA is not overpowered. This purpose of a poll is not for "Oh hey this noob beat me with RA, now let's see how many people will agree on destroying the noob's favorite strategy". Plus, RA in reality is not overpowered. Anyone playing SM could completely wipe out someone playing RA. If we nerf RA, what will we nerf next? Think of how strong SM would look after that. Then we would be like that's OP now let's nerf that. Then the next one looks OP, let's nerf that too and so on. No support. RA is good where it stands.

But new players still played RA just as much before the boost? You guys do realize it wouldn't matter whatsoever with a low ranker if RA was nerfed? The low rank is still being familiarized with the game and would accept it if RA is nerfed or not... Stop using that as your argument.

Well, the results are inclined toward this Nerf.

Assuming everything keeps going in the same way as it is doing, then this Nerf does have a popular support.

I will propose it to admins to see what does they think about it...

Sup guys,

Amok had replied. He say the change is still too controversial.

In my entire opinion, this was the only change in which we could had really agreed, and I don't think any other proposed change will be less controversial than this one.

Nonetheless, I invite you guys to propose any other non-controversial change. Post it in Pulse's thread( http://atwar-game.com/forum/topic.php?topic_id=20430 ), then let's see what the people thinks about it, and after some time (5-10 days?) we can make a poll to see the results.

Being said, this thread had served its propose. Thanks everybody who participated in the poll.

נכתב על ידי Kromn, 14.07.2015 at 17:24

Now what i say.
If we hear what lao wants,this game will be stopped to be produced and hosted.
Why?Ra is what all noobs are playing,who will donate for premium in future if he leaves game bcs he thinks its unbalanced?no one.
No money,no supporting game,no support,no hosting,no hosting,no site,no site,NO GAME NOOB.

This is like a paranoid apocalyptic scenario xD

נכתב על ידי Diedra, 15.07.2015 at 02:36

Agreed. Without RA we wouldn't have noobs. Without noobs we wouldn't have more people to support and buy stuff. We can't nerf RA because without RA, we have no noobs. Without noobs, this game will have a lot less players. RA is not overpowered. This purpose of a poll is not for "Oh hey this noob beat me with RA, now let's see how many people will agree on destroying the noob's favorite strategy". Plus, RA in reality is not overpowered. Anyone playing SM could completely wipe out someone playing RA. If we nerf RA, what will we nerf next? Think of how strong SM would look after that. Then we would be like that's OP now let's nerf that. Then the next one looks OP, let's nerf that too and so on. No support. RA is good where it stands.

I loathe posts like this. Clearly you havent been paying attention, read this somewhere and decided to parrot it. The whole point of the strategy changes since 2011 was to find some semi perfect balance within the current game dynamic with the default units. Since roughly 2013 it has been fine tuning. This isnt 2012. People arent still learning the game and how to use the strats. We're not going to wake up in the morning and suddenly find that gw sm and imp are suddenly overpowered. GW IF SM PD IMP MOS DS GC and BLITZ are currently well balanced. Theres always random complaints but none with enough weight to justify altering the strat. They all have their niches where theyre powerful.

Blitz was originally -2 defense, it was boosted by 50%( a huge huge poorly thought through boost) then people realised it needed a nerf hence the sudden outpour of complaints.

RA tank cost has been cut from 110 to 90 accidentally no less by the admins.

These are the current topics so much noise is being made about, its no neverending circle. LB and HW need impovements/complete revamps. Thats it.

Altering RA wont have any effect on the noobs, what do the noobs know about anything? Who are even the noobs? low ranks? when i was a low rank i didnt care how much my tanks cost, i just made them til my money ran out.

Also the 2 strategy change threads i made did a lot of good. They resulted in improvements/boosts to GC HW DS and IF that were long needed but nobody else bothered to take the initiative to push to get them boosted. Instead the focus is on the nerf to the beloved blitz and now theres people like andertes and croat ranting and raving about how i want to nerf all the strats and destroy aw just because i dared to touch their favourite strat.