CW wars ALWAYS in Europe

נכתב על ידי clovis1122, 21.02.2016 at 10:14

נכתב על ידי Permamuted, 21.02.2016 at 10:04

Perfect balance would result in very stale gameplay.

Yes I know that I was right. You're welcome.

See that is the thing with you clovis, you're not interested in making decent arguments or valid points. It is about winning. You nitpick my posts for a point/sentence which you perceive to be wrong then it ends up in your signature and you leave thinking youre a little genius.

But yes clovis, europe is the most balanced map on atwar. I am glad you seek to make your account an advertisement of that fact.

נכתב על ידי Guest, 21.02.2016 at 10:27

I wouldn't say any map is less balanced than EU except some really shitty SP farms, because you can get to the same result as on EU, it's just people like you being autistic and not daring to play anything but what they can find 1000000 guides on forums for.

Please, "people dying turn 3 in every map". I am saying that your "pr0s", "best AW players" (actually known as EU fags) are getting smashed on anything but EU because they are too good players to play other maps, obviously.

See the problem with this point is that any tournaments off the default map have been won by what you would describe as europe players. Logically it doesnt make sense that a non competitive player would be better than a competitive player.

נכתב על ידי Permamuted, 21.02.2016 at 10:37

נכתב על ידי Guest, 21.02.2016 at 10:27

I wouldn't say any map is less balanced than EU except some really shitty SP farms, because you can get to the same result as on EU, it's just people like you being autistic and not daring to play anything but what they can find 1000000 guides on forums for.

Please, "people dying turn 3 in every map". I am saying that your "pr0s", "best AW players" (actually known as EU fags) are getting smashed on anything but EU because they are too good players to play other maps, obviously.

See the problem with this point is that any tournaments off the default map have been won by what you would describe as europe players. Logically it doesnt make sense that a non competitive player would be better than a competitive player.

What tournaments? EU 10k 1vs1? Master of East? Master of West? Please...

נכתב על ידי Guest, 21.02.2016 at 11:39

נכתב על ידי Permamuted, 21.02.2016 at 10:37

נכתב על ידי Guest, 21.02.2016 at 10:27

I wouldn't say any map is less balanced than EU except some really shitty SP farms, because you can get to the same result as on EU, it's just people like you being autistic and not daring to play anything but what they can find 1000000 guides on forums for.

Please, "people dying turn 3 in every map". I am saying that your "pr0s", "best AW players" (actually known as EU fags) are getting smashed on anything but EU because they are too good players to play other maps, obviously.

See the problem with this point is that any tournaments off the default map have been won by what you would describe as europe players. Logically it doesnt make sense that a non competitive player would be better than a competitive player.

What tournaments? EU 10k 1vs1? Master of East? Master of West? Please...

the ancient tourneys and the competitive map contest tourney. But yea you guys dont make a lot of tourneys, mostly unproven, untested. You just talk a lot of shit and expect nobody to call you out on it Go prove how skilled you are njab, pick a map you play, host a tourney on it. Ill laugh as you're wrecked by eu memorisers. It happened to the ancient players. It'll happen to you too.

נכתב על ידי Guest, 21.02.2016 at 11:39

What tournaments? EU 10k 1vs1? Master of East? Master of West? Please...

נכתב על ידי Permamuted, 21.02.2016 at 10:37

any tournaments off the default map have been won by what you would describe as europe players.

נכתב על ידי Permamuted, 21.02.2016 at 10:29

you're not interested in making decent arguments or valid points. It is about winning. You nitpick my posts for a point/sentence which you perceive to be wrong then it ends up in your signature and you leave thinking youre a little genius.

You said that europe was the most balanced map in atWar.

I provided reasons about why it is not.

Rest of your words are a fail attempt at somehow confuse the true balance with the perfect imbalance which are two different concepts. I am not interest on arguing about that.

You gotta either prove that Europe is more balanced than True Competition (which is wrong by definition) or admit that you're wrong and leave the topic.

נכתב על ידי clovis1122, 21.02.2016 at 11:46

נכתב על ידי Permamuted, 21.02.2016 at 10:29

you're not interested in making decent arguments or valid points. It is about winning. You nitpick my posts for a point/sentence which you perceive to be wrong then it ends up in your signature and you leave thinking youre a little genius.

You said that europe was the most balanced map in atWar.

I provided reasons about why it is not.

Rest of your words are a fail attempt at somehow confuse the true balance with the perfect imbalance which are two different concepts. I am not interest on arguing about that.

You gotta either prove that Europe is more balanced than True Competition (which is wrong by definition) or admit that you're wrong and leave the topic.

yes i did say that, then i proceeded to explain why. Unfortunately i didnt state "balanced for competitive play", it was heavily implied but some people need everything spelled out for them. True competition isnt nearly as diverse nor has there been as much focus on it.

Redundant would be a redundant word to use for this never-ending argument which never seizes to stop...

anyway, to chip in, EU isn't perfect, nor the most balanced, and not the most fun either as a matter of fact. However, it's pretty close, unrivaled by the vast majority of scenarios and custom maps. Now we could argue all day about the transferability of competitive play skills vs scenario skills etc but that has gotten worn out, so ill just give you how it is short and simple.

- A player who memorizes the EU map and all it's plays is only good at that map, and will usually get rekt by your average multi-discipline scenario player elsewhere.
- A player who uses the EU map as an example and learning canvas to transfer play to other maps (and actually play other maps) will usually wreck anyone else, because the rest are not as interested or competitive as this player.
- A player who uses some world map derivative usually with more cities (ancient, medieval, etc) to grow will usually end up like the memorizing EU player: good at the map but bad elsewhere.
- A player who plays a wide array of good scenarios will usually end up picking up transferable skills but not with the same intensity as a EU player who doesn't memorize. This is because most scenarios are highly specialist and that's exactly what happens in them... a scripted scenario, with some variations depending on the gameplay.
-RP and UN players will suck everywhere until they get rekt on EU a couple hundred times.

In conclusion, memorizers will perish, but EU is the best place to learn general AW skills when you're limited to the realm of (EU, scenario, ancient, RP). This limit is ridiculous though, as I stated before, we need more competitive custom maps. We need to play more competitive custom maps. And we need to ENJOY more competitive custom map-play. The people who stick to one specific setting are the ones who are halting AW where it is, not advancing in terms of skill:rank or general competitiveness of both default and scenario. However, having a favored map that you play often is fine, and if someone calls you a 'memorizer' because of that then that person is fairly blind.

PS: The reason EU is held in such high regard in terms of competitiveness is because we, the community, made it such. Maybe not us, but the people before us. EU is competitive because it simply is where the competitive players play. Where the newbs are directed when they want to be skilled, etc. This means that we as a community can change this if we want, we have already claimed Destoria, Dreamworld, Foundation's Edge, etc as competitive with limited success, and we can endorse other maps as the realm of intense gameplay. However, there will be very few that rival EU in balance, knowledge/AW culture, and appeal.

Balance is a concept.
Diverse is another concept.

Certain settings can be balanced while not diverse (King of Hill on any of it's settings)
Certain settings can be diverse while not balanced (Destoria with 3k starting funds)

Both are characteristic of a good map but you can't group both under the definition of "balanced for competitive gameplay" that you seems to be making up from nowhere.

You could of argue about Europe being a good map to play, perhaps it is more balanced and have more diversity than other maps and scenarios. But definitively not the most diverse or the most balanced map. You can't group all theses concept under the "balanced for competitive gameplay" concept.

נכתב על ידי The Tactician, 21.02.2016 at 12:07

but EU is the best place to learn general AW skills when you're limited to the realm of (EU, scenario, ancient, RP).

Completely agree. Just look that:

- Fer, zone, phoenix, deviL, and a good part of SA plays Ancient.
- learster, trollface, Tunder, even I play scenarios.
- Mauzer, eagle, a good part of MK plays other zones in the default map.

But what do we all have in common? That we all play Europe. It had become a type of "point of reunion" for players from all the other type of game. Perhaps the fact that nearby all of the strongest players in the game at the very minimal knows how to play in Europe is what makes it such a good place to learn. You play against the strongest and learn at a higher level.

נכתב על ידי The Tactician, 21.02.2016 at 12:07

PS: The reason EU is held in such high regard in terms of competitiveness is because we, the community, made it such. Maybe not us, but the people before us.

Also 100% agree.

Well, I completely agree with all your comment but I wanted to point out theses two in particular.

נכתב על ידי Guest, 21.02.2016 at 10:27

I wouldn't say any map is less balanced than EU except some really shitty SP farms, because you can get to the same result as on EU, it's just people like you being autistic and not daring to play anything but what they can find 1000000 guides on forums for.

Please, "people dying turn 3 in every map". I am saying that your "pr0s", "best AW players" (actually known as EU fags) are getting smashed on anything but EU because they are too good players to play other maps, obviously.

Bring it on.

נכתב על ידי clovis1122, 21.02.2016 at 12:26

Balance is a concept.
Diverse is another concept.

Certain settings can be balanced while not diverse (King of Hill on any of it's settings)
Certain settings can be diverse while not balanced (Destoria with 3k starting funds)

Both are characteristic of a good map but you can't group both under the definition of "balanced for competitive gameplay" that you seems to be making up from nowhere.

You could of argue about Europe being a good map to play, perhaps it is more balanced and have more diversity than other maps and scenarios. But definitively not the most diverse or the most balanced map. You can't group all theses concept under the "balanced for competitive gameplay" concept.

nope unfortunately for you the english language is extremely flexible. It was obvious what i was referring to.

נכתב על ידי clovis1122, 21.02.2016 at 12:33

But what do we all have in common? That we all play Europe. It had become a type of "point of reunion" for players from all the other type of game. Perhaps the fact that nearby all of the strongest players in the game at the very minimal knows how to play in Europe is what makes it such a good place to learn. You play against the strongest and learn at a higher level.

oh how you've changed. A year ago you were telling us all we would learn the most atwar skills on rp. I couldnt be bothered searching through your 5k posts to show this.

נכתב על ידי Kraigg, 21.02.2016 at 08:26

נכתב על ידי The Tactician, 21.02.2016 at 02:43

No, Destoria CW is the answer. 100000% better than Ancient.

go do some cws on destoria

Honnestly Lunatis is much better than Destoria, still it s same units as standars so whats the point?

Lunatis is a great map, one of the first genuine attempts at a 'competitive' replica.

The units for 'competitive' play imo should always be stock units as not to break the strategies

נכתב על ידי Permamuted, 21.02.2016 at 09:31

נכתב על ידי Guest, 20.02.2016 at 16:22

נכתב על ידי Heat Check, 20.02.2016 at 15:52

You are asking me to repeat myself. Europe map is a result of ultimate autism and dedication of the guy who play it so they can suit their need - have an autistic map that they can play. Why we never see anybody playing any map but EU? Because they "don't play it", actually they're too nooby to find 2 decent picks on the map and their counters and they don't have a memorized expansion and don't know what strategy to pick for those picks.

wrong, just because you dislike europe and are bad at it, does not mean you can make up stuff. Europe is the most balanced perfectly unbalanced map on atwar.

Fixed

Clovis if you want people to stop playing eu so much then try to make a map that is better.

נכתב על ידי Xenosapien, 21.02.2016 at 14:09

Clovis if you want people to stop playing eu so much then try to make a map that is better.

Double like.

נכתב על ידי Xenosapien, 21.02.2016 at 14:09

Clovis if you want people to stop playing eu so much then try to make a map that is better.

Never said so, but I actually like Eu because:

נכתב על ידי clovis1122, 21.02.2016 at 12:33

But what do we all have in common? That we all play Europe. It had become a type of "point of reunion" for players from all the other type of game.

נכתב על ידי clovis1122, 20.02.2016 at 17:25

נכתב על ידי Guest, 20.02.2016 at 17:11

נכתב על ידי clovis1122, 20.02.2016 at 17:05

,Pyrrhus and Aetius's

the optimates.......?

נכתב על ידי Viruslegion, 21.02.2016 at 16:23

נכתב על ידי clovis1122, 20.02.2016 at 17:25

נכתב על ידי Guest, 20.02.2016 at 17:11

נכתב על ידי clovis1122, 20.02.2016 at 17:05

,Pyrrhus and Aetius's

the optimates.......?

Yes! Sorry I always forget the name... before it was 3rd Reich...

imo the number of CWs would increase if we had scenario cws...

"I memorized how to play 1 map by playing it thousands of times and thats why im better than you in AtWar"...................mmmk, whatevah you say

נכתב על ידי clovis1122, 21.02.2016 at 17:22

נכתב על ידי Viruslegion, 21.02.2016 at 16:23

נכתב על ידי clovis1122, 20.02.2016 at 17:25

נכתב על ידי Guest, 20.02.2016 at 17:11

נכתב על ידי clovis1122, 20.02.2016 at 17:05

,Pyrrhus and Aetius's

the optimates.......?

Yes! Sorry I always forget the name... before it was 3rd Reich...
imo the number of CWs would increase if we had scenario cws...

I would cw if there were scenario cws

נכתב על ידי Viruslegion, 21.02.2016 at 18:46

נכתב על ידי clovis1122, 21.02.2016 at 17:22

נכתב על ידי Viruslegion, 21.02.2016 at 16:23

נכתב על ידי clovis1122, 20.02.2016 at 17:25

נכתב על ידי Guest, 20.02.2016 at 17:11

נכתב על ידי clovis1122, 20.02.2016 at 17:05

,Pyrrhus and Aetius's

the optimates.......?

Yes! Sorry I always forget the name... before it was 3rd Reich...
imo the number of CWs would increase if we had scenario cws...

I would cw if there were scenario cws

so find ppl to play against

נכתב על ידי Evic, 21.02.2016 at 18:39

"I memorized how to play 1 map by playing it thousands of times and thats why im better than you in AtWar"...................mmmk, whatevah you say

First off cive I just want to say that competition is virtually playing/doing some sort of activity (or in this case EU) over and over again in order to master it and improve as a player. It has been indoctrinated as the standard competitive map as well which is why it is played so much.

Technically competition is memorizing something because you're playing it alot in order to become the best, but if you really think about it its not. Each player is different, each scenario you are in (not game scenarios but actual scenarios) is also different which makes you have to adapt and change up as you play so essentially it isn't because each instance is different, it is the same as scenarios/maps. As you play you are constantly learning things about yourself, the environment other players and tactics to use which is one reason why its appealing because it gives you a real challenge, something to look for. All of this applies to atwar, you learn expansions for different countries, you adopt a play style, you strive to improve yourself and you try to learn other players thoroughly, this is something scenarios do not have (if you're playing different scenarios each time) because each scenario is different with different countries and different play styles. Given that you can easily see what scenarios and EU teach you.

EU teaches you how to adapt to things that happen on EU.
EU teaches you how to adopt a play style
EU teaches you how to further understand your opponents play style
EU teaches you self-determination

Scenarios teach you how to adapt to things on a certain map but also in other instances
Scenarios teach you how to understand a situation that you are unfamiliar in
Scenarios teach you how to be dynamic

There is more for both EU and scenarios but I believe these are the core fundamentals for both. As you can see each teach you different things.

Also, if EU was truly memorizing each game would be almost identical if not identical, but it isn't because its not entirely memorization. Bizarre plays and things can happen at any time. It is just like competition in real life.

One last thing, this argument is incredibly infuriating and pointless. There is so much ignorance on both sides, neither is superior to one another because each are different in their own ways and that is something people have to accept, this toxicity that I have witnessed from both sides is atrocious. I have been to both sides of atwar and I can fully see why people like one or the other. Hopefully you all eventually see through both sides.

נכתב על ידי Dbacks, 21.02.2016 at 19:16

נכתב על ידי Viruslegion, 21.02.2016 at 18:46

נכתב על ידי clovis1122, 21.02.2016 at 17:22

נכתב על ידי Viruslegion, 21.02.2016 at 16:23

נכתב על ידי clovis1122, 20.02.2016 at 17:25

נכתב על ידי Guest, 20.02.2016 at 17:11

נכתב על ידי clovis1122, 20.02.2016 at 17:05

,Pyrrhus and Aetius's

the optimates.......?

Yes! Sorry I always forget the name... before it was 3rd Reich...
imo the number of CWs would increase if we had scenario cws...

I would cw if there were scenario cws

so find ppl to play against

Optimares vs Hydra.
Optimares vs Epic Clan
Optimares vs whatever clan is Tunder at currently.

I'll post with a bit of promotion. Back in 2014, I think, there was a contest to create maps for competitive play. My entry was New York http://atwar-game.com/map/?id=5405. It has the same global resource level and map size as Europe+. I've played it 50 times and it has a good geographic balance. Anyone who is looking for alternatives for cw or just casual 3v3 should check it out.

I don't have anything against scenario cw's ,but they have to be separated from normal cw's (different ladders and etc.)

נכתב על ידי Amorphous, 22.02.2016 at 10:38

I don't have anything against scenario cw's ,but they have to be separated from normal cw's (different ladders and etc.)

why? its still a clan war, making seperate ladder is just irrational.

For me its irrational to even compare scenario cw's and normal cw's. Those are two separated branches of the game, 70% of normal players can't stand up to scenario players in scenario games, while 90% of scenario players cant stand up to normal ones on their playground. It would be silly that Optimates have a better ranking than SM,MK, Enigma and other clans. We don't play the game in the similar way (basics are the same, but very different) , why compare them then ? And the truth is that u need more clans so the admins start that up and i think they will never do that because scenarios are and always will be mod of the original Afterwind.

נכתב על ידי Amorphous, 22.02.2016 at 12:47

Those are two separated branches of the game, 70% of normal players can't stand up to scenario players in scenario games, while 90% of scenario players cant stand up to normal ones on their playground.

So whoever plays europe all day all night is a "normal" player?

wtf...

That would'be like saying that a player who only duel in Europe deserves to have better ELO than another player that duels only in ancient... Obviously no. Equal elo anywhere you fight! Same for scenario cws.

Besides, if MK SM and ENIGMA are as strong as they are then they should dominante in scenario cws too...

נכתב על ידי clovis1122, 22.02.2016 at 15:56

נכתב על ידי Amorphous, 22.02.2016 at 12:47

Those are two separated branches of the game, 70% of normal players can't stand up to scenario players in scenario games, while 90% of scenario players cant stand up to normal ones on their playground.

So whoever plays europe all day all night is a "normal" player?

wtf...

That would'be like saying that a player who only duel in Europe deserves to have better ELO than another player that duels only in ancient... Obviously no. Equal elo anywhere you fight! Same for scenario cws.

Besides, if MK SM and ENIGMA are as strong as they are then they should dominante in scenario cws too...

You are just salty because I did not mention EPIC , sorry. Just figured out that this theme will always be a reason to war and what happens,happens. My opinion go europe - scenarios and epic suck. Bye Bye