Some cases related to Movement Priorities.

EDIT: Click here to see the conclusion: http://atwar-game.com/forum/topic.php?topic_id=22818#m290968

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Sup guys,

with the help of dinoscout I've elaborated some cases related to movement priorities. Please comment below what would you do if you were playing the match. There are more than one correct answer (but you can still argue why your is best than other).

In all the scenarios you are the light green player. You can assume any strategy that you desire.

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About priorities

The concept of priority is usually the hardest to learn, typically because it relies in the player's capacity to recognize patron of movements and requires to have knowledge about certain game mechanics (specially Turn Blocks, to which it is strictly related). Even between the most experienced players, it can be a challenge to recognize which movement should'be made first, second, or even latest moves.

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Case 1: mixing units? - Very Easy

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Case 2: Many choices but... - Easy

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Case 3: Sea transports on the look? - Medium

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Case 4: Let's play ancient! - Medium

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Case 5: Looks like nowhere to go.... - Hard
Additional information: There are sea transports in Varna, Athens and Thessaloniki. You can't defend a full rush.

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Case 6: Marines? Marines! - Very Hard
It is reinforcements turn. You can buy 8 marines in each visible city.

Who keeps 94 marines in one stack

נכתב על ידי Xenosapien, 11.11.2015 at 13:02

Who keeps 94 marines in one stack

I was actually trying to hunt down Sultan Of Swing's stack but failed ....

I mean, one of the reasons for which I made this thread was because I had a game against Sultan Of Swing (Asia 3k, afghanistan vs NK) that fits the same theme. I had around 88 marines, he had a stack of 50 marines and also 30 militias and gen in Nepal. We detected each other's stack and I lasted like 2 minutes before deciding which move should I make first...

Anyway, which would'be your first move and why (in that case) ?

I would first tb his largest with 40 something from the 92 stack-troop trade is pretty much the most important part of the game aside from reinfs, then another 30 (or more if I thought there were more in.. idk I wasnt in game) to the gen stack. Then I would go for the 20 marines at the bottom, 15 marines in paki with the 8 city (if no tb it would maybe follow and defend) then the final marine stack. I wasn't in the game so can't judge properly, you get a much better idea of troops but meh. id also tb the bomber and lone unit afterwards, to prevent wfs

נכתב על ידי Xenosapien, 11.11.2015 at 13:18

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1. Move the 94 units stack.
2. Split it into two, move one stack of 40 marines against the 66 enemy marines near it.
3. Send the rest (54) to Nepal to attack the enemy's general stack.
4. Move the 7 marines in southern India to attack the 20 enemy marines near it.
5. Buy 8 marines in Lahole (paki's city), send them to attack the 15 enemy marines near it.
6. Buy 8 marines in an indian city closer to the enemy's 19 marines stack and attack it.
7. Buy 2 marines in Islamabad (paki's cap) and attack the enemy bomber near it.

8. Do the rest of the moves......

Is this accurate?

1. kill south india marines
2. kill pakistan marines
3. kill kanpur marines
4. defend marine stack with 60 inf

I would
1. send 30 of the 94 stack to tb the 54
2. send the 10 of the 14 non stealth to the 19 stealthy guys
3. send the 7 stealthy guys to the 20 stealthy guys
4. defend india like you've never defended it before

I would use my epic mod hax and destroy everyone with op ddos

נכתב על ידי clovis1122, 11.11.2015 at 13:05

נכתב על ידי Xenosapien, 11.11.2015 at 13:02

Who keeps 94 marines in one stack

I was actually trying to hunt down Sultan Of Swing's stack but failed ....

clovis always fails vs me.. GG

Am I a nub or just blind?

Where the hell is this 94 unit stack?

נכתב על ידי Yeomanry, 11.11.2015 at 20:12

Am I a nub or just blind?

Where the hell is this 94 unit stack?

on the "very hard" one... look just north of Nepal..

נכתב על ידי Phoenix, 11.11.2015 at 20:14

נכתב על ידי Yeomanry, 11.11.2015 at 20:12

Am I a nub or just blind?

Where the hell is this 94 unit stack?

on the "very hard" one... look just north of Nepal..

נכתב על ידי Xenosapien, 11.11.2015 at 13:02

Who keeps 94 marines in one stack

Bump....

still waiting for a couple more of replies.

This is actually rather hard to tell lets say you decide to send half of your 92 to kill those 54 marines as first move. If this is your first move good job you killed 54 marines but if his first move was to hit delhi your marines would end up defending in delhi. This happened to me many times.

Other than the strategy is pretty simple you kill of their marines using yours while defending all the caps.

נכתב על ידי minusSeven, 21.11.2015 at 00:02

This is actually rather hard to tell lets say you decide to send half of your 92 to kill those 54 marines as first move. If this is your first move good job you killed 54 marines but if his first move was to hit delhi your marines would end up defending in delhi. This happened to me many times.

Other than the strategy is pretty simple you kill of their marines using yours while defending all the caps.

you defend delhi hard as fuck

Okay, apparently there won't be new replies so I'll express my point of view in all five situation. You guys can tell me if you agree or not agree to it.

1. It is very easy, you can hit the stack of 15 tanks for a direct 50% chance of TurnBlock.

A more expert player would split the bombers and hit the stack of 15 tanks with 9 bombers, and the stack of 4 tanks with 1 bomber. That grants you more than 50% chances of TB ( (50% * 1/2) + (9/19 * 2) ) ~75% chances of TurnBlock in this way. The 50% instead of 1/4 in the formula comes from the TB guide: "When trying to TB a stack with 4 or less units, one unit will always get 50% chances of tb unless priorities affects it". It is assumed that your enemy's first move would'be to move those 4 tanks and mix them with the 15 tanks, hence why the respective 1/2 and 2 multipliers. This didn't took into account the stack of 7 tanks that seems to reach the city directly, but the results are nearby the same.

2. Another easy cake but requires a bit more of knowledge. I would hit the 5 tanks with the 13 units in Bangladesh as first move for a direct 50% chance of TB. and if I fail my enemy would still be attacking bangladesh so my units will defend anyway... second move would'be to add the 2 tanks near Burma to ensure that if I get to tb, my stack will kill more of the enemy stack if troop.

3. A Turn 2 expansion. This is more closer to a real game than the last two and will be what you'll find most likely when playing against a noob. "Sure, hit all the sea transports as first move" they say in this thread. However, what they ignore is that Moldova got taken, so you should assume that your enemy will try to break Kiev wall from there... Sending 3 bombers to Moldova as 1st move will grant you a direct 50% chance to keep Kiev wall alive for the next turn. My second move would'be to TB varna and avoid a possible movement from there... After that hitting the sea transports from Hungary is self-explanatory (In which order though? I'll go for the Italian one first, then the Thessaloniki one, then the Athens one).

4. Another Turn 2 expansion. Sure since this thread is related to priorities you all can assume that Epirus is the obvious target of TB. But what is the logic behind this? Simply that your enemy can attack you from there. Being save from enemy attacks is very good as it allows you to expand without problems. My first move in every ancient game that looks like this would'be to TurnBlock Epirus by sending the whole stack from Umbria to Epirus as first move. Nonetheless I would still assume that my Turnblock can fail and stack the countries that he would possibility attack (name: My general). As my latest moves I would move those stacks and do something useful, maybe even consider walling Epirus just in case.

5. Oh my... This is even more related to a real game than the latest ones. A good high rank tends to leave his sea transports in coastal cities rather than in sea. This means that if he stack the city your chances won't be 50% of TB anymore but rather will take into account how many units were moved there. Lucky the mandates gives you the location of the sea transports, which a common player doesn't usually looks for.

Since you can't defend the rush then protecting Kiev with all (maybe for recap later) is a priority, but also is to turnblock your enemy. I would first hit the coastal transport near turkey and then hit Istanbul with the 5 bombers. Then I would hit Varna and Thessaloniki in order with 1 bomber. Hitting Istanbul relies totally in that your enemy will mix units and move a big stack but with a very late priority from there, so the 5 bombers might get a decent chance due to priorities. If your enemy mixed units then a TB anywhere in the other moves will cause his whole stack to not move (Stack Merging tbs).

6. And here you go... a real example filled up with lots of important moves. Usually you would require a bigger view of the map as well as knowing your income/reinf/troops position / turns b4 reinfs / etc, but I've provide you enough information to accomplish this (you can buy 8 reinf in EACH visible city).

The biggest problem of this scenario is moving the marines stack. I would first move it off then try to tb my enemy's marine stack and gen as 2nd and 3rd move respectively.



Then I would do my other moves, which consist in sending 8 marines to each visible enemy's stack. The priority of each attack is almost self-explanatory. At last I would defend india and move the rest of this stack to somewhere else... where it can be useful for me later on.

נכתב על ידי clovis1122, 11.11.2015 at 14:14

נכתב על ידי Xenosapien, 11.11.2015 at 13:18

-

1. Move the 94 units stack.
2. Split it into two, move one stack of 40 marines against the 66 enemy marines near it.
3. Send the rest (54) to Nepal to attack the enemy's general stack.
4. Move the 7 marines in southern India to attack the 20 enemy marines near it.
5. Buy 8 marines in Lahole (paki's city), send them to attack the 15 enemy marines near it.
6. Buy 8 marines in an indian city closer to the enemy's 19 marines stack and attack it.
7. Buy 2 marines in Islamabad (paki's cap) and attack the enemy bomber near it.

8. Do the rest of the moves......

Is this accurate?

I wouldn't buy full marines, I'd buy a varying amount of marines and use some mil to try and tb kill, so the mill can go into city and help defend if the tb fails and the marines attack something nearby. for the 19 marines if I wa sconfident I had enough defence in delhi then I'd just use the mil nearby, if not then use marines from indore, which can be defended in case marines tbed. I wouldn't use all 94 marines, I'd move some of them elsewhere. also what is the reason for moving the stack before splitting it up?

נכתב על ידי Xenosapien, 23.11.2015 at 07:52

also what is the reason for moving the stack before splitting it up?

If you split them without moving them, you're giving your enemy the chance of tb you twice.

As for the rest I agree.

נכתב על ידי Xenosapien, 11.11.2015 at 13:18

I would first tb his largest with 40 something from the 92 stack-troop trade is pretty much the most important part of the game aside from reinfs, then another 30 (or more if I thought there were more in.. idk I wasnt in game) to the gen stack.

נכתב על ידי clovis1122, 23.11.2015 at 08:10

נכתב על ידי Xenosapien, 23.11.2015 at 07:52

also what is the reason for moving the stack before splitting it up?

If you split them without moving them, you're giving your enemy the chance of tb you twice.

As for the rest I agree.

surely there is still the chance to tb you twice, as the units would follow the stack you moved anyway and have two tb chances when you split it, unless you moved it out of range, so could be useful if you moved it out of range.

נכתב על ידי Xenosapien, 23.11.2015 at 08:13

surely there is still the chance to tb you twice, as the units would follow the stack you moved anyway and have two tb chances when you split it, unless you moved it out of range, so could be useful if you moved it out of range.

I though the tb follow will only happen to your last destination (means, if he tries to tb you he would follow your last destination). Therefore the split would happen without chances of tbs...

It is a good question though, I'll ask in the tb guide for it.

נכתב על ידי Xenosapien, 23.11.2015 at 08:13

surely there is still the chance to tb you twice, as the units would follow the stack you moved anyway and have two tb chances when you split it, unless you moved it out of range, so could be useful if you moved it out of range.

Here is lao answer

נכתב על ידי Permamuted, 23.11.2015 at 11:46

To answer your question, the stack will either get tbd at the original location or, if in range of the tb unit, before you split it with a part of the stack getting tb'd. The most common scenario youll see this in is with trans.

"A part of the stack will get tbed". Well imo is best than the whole stack getting tbed... on the other hand, it cost you 1 priority (moving the stack).

נכתב על ידי clovis1122, 23.11.2015 at 12:31

נכתב על ידי Xenosapien, 23.11.2015 at 08:13

surely there is still the chance to tb you twice, as the units would follow the stack you moved anyway and have two tb chances when you split it, unless you moved it out of range, so could be useful if you moved it out of range.

Here is lao answer

נכתב על ידי Permamuted, 23.11.2015 at 11:46

To answer your question, the stack will either get tbd at the original location or, if in range of the tb unit, before you split it with a part of the stack getting tb'd. The most common scenario youll see this in is with trans.

"A part of the stack will get tbed". Well imo is best than the whole stack getting tbed... on the other hand, it cost you 1 priority (moving the stack).

This is why I said you should throw the whole 90 stack on the 50 stack.
Edit: before i deleted my comment because i thought i sounded narb....

Right.....can I just say that all those formulae about TB and MP are just going WAY over my head. Is there some kind of trick to remembering them?

BUMP.

Case 6, merge gen + as many militia into your 94 marine stack as possible to soak the attacks.

נכתב על ידי Witch-Doctor, 15.08.2017 at 23:50

Case 6, merge gen + as many militia into your 94 marine stack as possible to soak the attacks.

Really? That never crossed my mind, you shouldn't be able to get more than 30 mil into that stack so you just lose like 20-40 marines? Seems much better to split the stack and attack the 53 marines with 53 of your own, then hit the gen stack, only then merge gen and militia into the remaining marines in case of TB.

נכתב על ידי Sid, 16.08.2017 at 00:03

נכתב על ידי Witch-Doctor, 15.08.2017 at 23:50

Case 6, merge gen + as many militia into your 94 marine stack as possible to soak the attacks.

Really? That never crossed my mind, you shouldn't be able to get more than 30 mil into that stack so you just lose like 20-40 marines? Seems much better to split the stack and attack the 53 marines with 53 of your own, then hit the gen stack, only then merge gen and militia into the remaining marines in case of TB.

Well this does seem like a lategame so maybe ~50 should be achievable

נכתב על ידי Sid, 16.08.2017 at 00:03

נכתב על ידי Witch-Doctor, 15.08.2017 at 23:50

Case 6, merge gen + as many militia into your 94 marine stack as possible to soak the attacks.

Really? That never crossed my mind, you shouldn't be able to get more than 30 mil into that stack so you just lose like 20-40 marines? Seems much better to split the stack and attack the 53 marines with 53 of your own, then hit the gen stack, only then merge gen and militia into the remaining marines in case of TB.

If I was Orange, and for some unknown reason I was up to kill your 94 marines stack, my first moves would'be to hit it first, then to TB Delhi with those 15 marines near Pakistan. Third, I would TB Kanpur with 9 marines and after it hit your wall with 10 marines (all this from the 19 marine stack near the "a" of "India" in the picture). Theses moves are all to prevent you from defending it.

Because you're making many moves before moving your defensive army, it's likely that the setup that you said would TB you and prevent you from defending your stack.

Now if you are Light Green and you know that your opponent will do this or something similar, then perhaps Moving your gen w/ militia stack out as your 1st move, and then buy some ATS in Jaipur to help you merge units would'be your best attempt (this is, assuming how unlikely is that your opponent will attack Jaipur). You can get around 23 units, and a bit more if you risk to get Kanpur units there with the ATS.

נכתב על ידי Witch-Doctor, 15.08.2017 at 23:50

Case 6, merge gen + as many militia into your 94 marine stack as possible to soak the attacks.

But to the whole idea of defending the marines... it really depends on the intel gathered by playing against your opponent I guess. Seems pretty inflexible against other possible better strategies from Orange...

Anyway, that scope is beyond prioritization.

נכתב על ידי Darth., 16.02.2016 at 11:38

Right.....can I just say that all those formulae about TB and MP are just going WAY over my head. Is there some kind of trick to remembering them?

Aww darth was such a cute little narb back then

נכתב על ידי LukeTan, 16.08.2017 at 10:09

נכתב על ידי Darth., 16.02.2016 at 11:38

Right.....can I just say that all those formulae about TB and MP are just going WAY over my head. Is there some kind of trick to remembering them?

Aww darth was such a cute little narb back then

Was?