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פורסם על ידי tophat, 02.06.2013 - 14:32
There are still some strategies that need boosts. However, progress has been made, significant progress actually. Relentless attack is much more useful (still needs a slight boost) , naval commander is now very balanced. But some other strategies are in need to be boosted. Here are the boosts that need to be implemented:



Boosts



Relentless Attack:

In the description it says exactly this: "Powerful main attack units at the cost of weaker defence units." So why are infantries' attack reduced to 3? It goes against the description.

Boost: +1 attack to infantry. (making it 4)


Blitzkrieg:

The weakest strategy, literally. Mainly because of its atrocious defense.

Boost: Make it -1 defense to all units, not -2.

Some will say that it should receive an offensive boost, because it is in fact, "lightning attack". However, I disagree, -2 defense to all units is just unplayable. Even -1 defense to all units is bad, but let's at least start there and see what needs to be improved or reduced later.



Boosts/Nerfs



Master of Stealth:

Some will say it is one of the strongest World map strategies. Yes, it is. But, in Europe+ games such as 3v3s or 1v1s, and even Eurasia games, MOS is too mediocre. Despite it being decent all around, there's always at least one strategy that is better to choose than MOS in every possible scenario.

Boost: -10 cost to marines. (making them 110 cost)


In this case, the boost overpowers the nerf, which is what we want, MOS needs to be stronger in Europe. I've never seen anyone use it Europe+ games, literally. It's not a huge boost but I think we should at least start here and see what we can adjust later on.


Great Combinator:

GC was nerfed for being overpowered a while back. Currently, tanks are 9 attack and 1 defense and infantry are 1 attack and 7 defense.

Boost/nerf: -10 cost to tanks

re-implement the +1 HP, except let's make tanks 8 attack and 1 defense. Additionally, let's make infantry 1 attack and 6 defense with +1 HP.

Here, we are removing an attack from the tank and a defense from the infantry, except adding the +1 HP back again. Attack and hit points are about the same worth, (ish) but the HP will be a more significant boost because the act of combining will be much stronger. Essentially, I'm cutting in the middle of both GC statuses. It was op before, now it is underpowered. My suggestion for GC will make it stronger than it is now, but also weaker than it was before. Agree?



Nerfs



Perfect Defense:

Undetermined
01.07.2013 - 18:41
Can't wait to play blitz again
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03.07.2013 - 06:22
נכתב על ידי Cthulhu, 01.07.2013 at 18:41

Can't wait to play blitz again


THIS!
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"In this game, everyone is hated."
~Xenosapien
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05.07.2013 - 22:03
Blitz does not need to defend, you need to use up all your opponent reinforcement to win.

btw, best defense is walls

thinking of large maps when i said this if you are wondering
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11.07.2013 - 19:26
Bumping this thread. I had already sent a pm to both ivan and amok. amok responded and i believe is willing to implement.
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Don't trust the manipulative rabbit.
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15.07.2013 - 02:50
 Ivan (אדמין)
Hey guys. Thanks for putting so much thought into balancing the strategies, much appreciated. I'll try to talk to Amok to day and implement the changes.
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15.07.2013 - 07:07


Blitz shall return! Stronger than ever!
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15.07.2013 - 12:27
I am soooooooooooooooooooooo ready to play Blitz again!!!
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"In atWar you either die a hero or live long enough to ally fag and gang bang some poor bastards."
~Goblin

"In this game, everyone is hated."
~Xenosapien
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16.07.2013 - 03:12
 Ivan (אדמין)
OK, all implemented. Altering strategies is bitch now because of translations - had to wipe all translations for Great Combinator description and spent about 15 minutes changing Blitzkrieg defence to -1 in two sets of translations...
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16.07.2013 - 20:05
AtWar Aventures
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נכתב על ידי clovis1122, 16.07.2013 at 15:39

Blitz is OP. +3 movement and +2 view range for only -1 def? now blitz is a lot playlable in small maps and funds, in small scale wars, in rushing, and the INCREDIBLY EASY way to make walls winth militias. Blitz is not about defend, you get a bettle chance emplying a city and attaking it next turn thad defending, but -1def insteat of -2def is just making it all arounds ( refering thad is good in all ways, in all funds, in eitle small or wide maps, for attack and for defend [yet the walls make blitz easy to defend in one or other way. ] ) I dont see like bliz is according winth what " fast attack " mean.

נכתב על ידי Cthulhu, 05.07.2013 at 22:03

Blitz does not need to defend, you need to use up all your opponent reinforcement to win.

btw, best defense is walls

thinking of large maps when i said this if you are wondering



since Blitzkrieg is about attack, i will agree with you:
-2 defense +3 range +2 attack, everyone happy.

now what about nerfing PD
i propose -2 attack to all units
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16.07.2013 - 20:22
נכתב על ידי Guest, 16.07.2013 at 20:05

נכתב על ידי clovis1122, 16.07.2013 at 15:39

Blitz is OP. +3 movement and +2 view range for only -1 def? now blitz is a lot playlable in small maps and funds, in small scale wars, in rushing, and the INCREDIBLY EASY way to make walls winth militias. Blitz is not about defend, you get a bettle chance emplying a city and attaking it next turn thad defending, but -1def insteat of -2def is just making it all arounds ( refering thad is good in all ways, in all funds, in eitle small or wide maps, for attack and for defend [yet the walls make blitz easy to defend in one or other way. ] ) I dont see like bliz is according winth what " fast attack " mean.

נכתב על ידי Cthulhu, 05.07.2013 at 22:03

Blitz does not need to defend, you need to use up all your opponent reinforcement to win.

btw, best defense is walls

thinking of large maps when i said this if you are wondering



since Blitzkrieg is about attack, i will agree with you:
-2 defense +3 range +2 attack, everyone happy.

now what about nerfing PD
i propose -2 attack to all units


No, that would be extremely op. It would essentially be old blitz with an extra 2 attack to all units. way too op.

The recent changes are fine as of now, and was approved by a majority. However, if issues were to arise in the future and blitz turns out to be op, then I would propose that militia remain -2 defence whilst all other units at -1 defence.
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Don't trust the manipulative rabbit.
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16.07.2013 - 20:25
As an MoS player, I agree to these price changes for marines.
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WRYYYYYYY
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16.07.2013 - 20:41
I don't know about world games, but I think this will be a game changer for EU games. And I don't know if we want the games to be altered this much. I myself liked a previous idea: no defense modifier when fighting another player for a neutral territory.
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He always runs while others walk. He acts while other men just talk. He looks at this world and wants it all. So he strikes like Thunderball.
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17.07.2013 - 03:03
Blitz is retarded now and must be nerfed. I almost don't want to put in the effort to learn Blitz openings for every country since I don't know what the nerf will entail. I just know a nerf needs to happen quickly.

Just as a simple comparison: People who play SM might know one of the tricks that makes it work is the ability to buy air transports and utilize militia (most efficient unit in game) for expansion and combat. With Blitz, every militia is useful. And you don't need to spend 350 on an air transport. It's too much. Nerf pls. Nerf now.
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He always runs while others walk. He acts while other men just talk. He looks at this world and wants it all. So he strikes like Thunderball.
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17.07.2013 - 16:55
It's only been 2 days since the changes, everybody relax, none of you are in a position of determining what the different strategies need after such a short period, including myself. Let's wait a few weeks and we'll adjust with experience. And I know for some of you some strategies are in obvious need of boosts or nerfs, but even then, wait and see. For example, a while ago with old gc, no one thought it a strong strategy for a long time, until it was discovered more deeply and became popular out of nowhere.
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Don't trust the manipulative rabbit.
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17.07.2013 - 18:10
Its good news for users of RA and Blitz...
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20.07.2013 - 17:39
נכתב על ידי clovis1122, 20.07.2013 at 17:22

נכתב על ידי EpicRice, 20.07.2013 at 11:06

נכתב על ידי clovis1122, 18.07.2013 at 09:19

נכתב על ידי tophat, 17.07.2013 at 16:55

It's only been 2 days since the changes, everybody relax, none of you are in a position of determining what the different strategies need after such a short period, including myself. Let's wait a few weeks and we'll adjust with experience. And I know for some of you some strategies are in obvious need of boosts or nerfs, but even then, wait and see. For example, a while ago with old gc, no one thought it a strong strategy for a long time, until it was discovered more deeply and became popular out of nowhere.

oops with blitz no doubt, Fortifying a position with IF, planes, or PD, or turnblocking and ambushing blitz armies with ANYTHING will give you throw a brick at a blitz user's head. Giant 60 convenient, fast, hard hitting death stacks have a 60 defense penalty that makes them vulnerable, and smaller squads can be forgotten, harder to micro, TB, and can die attacking defenders since essentially, your just playing with regular units that just move faster with paperthin armor


your affilmation is only correct in World games, but even in world games ONE WALL can charge ALL THE GAME!!! btw, Blitz can overexpand RA, PD, of couse IF, and by walling SM citys or stack, is easy cake too!. remember is easy to wall winth blitz.

Also winth -1 def is not hard to defend, and since you have fast militias the most cost-efficient unti in AW, you hardly will manage to break EVERY wall ( unless you playing against a non expert, haha )


If you play blitz, you should acknowledge that the damage penalty can be pretty painful, you will lose alot of defensive battles, or at the least take alot of casualties. The -2 was horrendous. there was no room for defense, it causes alot of pressure trying to always be on the offense, at least with -1 there a bit of breathing space. While you can wall an enemy stack, it's not always 100% pulloffable. Being able to use militia is cost efficient, but once your in larger scale battles, it becomes less priority when balancing time and effort to make militia walls.

You can use militia captured from cities to make walls, but once they die theres not much else to either A. attack or B. Defend and you should never defend with blitz. If you try to stack 15 troops of any kind in a say a vital capitol, that's a -15 defense penalty already, and your enemy WILL have an additional attack over you (Unless he's using no strat because he was lazy to pick one haha) ranging from 1-3 per unit that he owns that recieves a buff due to his strat. So for example Sky mence (Which has the range of blitz) can use bombers with an addition +2, or even a none strat user could attack with a combo of say infantry, helicopters, and tanks. Your infantry would be ripped apart by helicopters, followed up by infantry/tanks, and then your tanks and militia would be nonexistant.

-2 with Blitz is VERY punishing, -1 offers you to at least make a comeback if your main army(s) get attacked. Blitz's Militia wall and other pros can be easily countered by the pros of other strats.
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Capitalism, Ho!
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21.07.2013 - 19:09
 VRIL
Topic closed temporarily due to spam. I deal with this tomorrow.
This board was created to improve game play experience for everyone its not a place to mess around.
From now on 1 week forum ban for every off topic post in the suggestion section and ban if its an alt so things dont get out of hand another time.
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26.07.2013 - 20:37
Iron Fist needs boost


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26.07.2013 - 20:41
נכתב על ידי reckoner., 26.07.2013 at 20:37

Iron Fist needs boost

(image)


GC
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26.07.2013 - 20:46
נכתב על ידי Meester, 26.07.2013 at 20:41

נכתב על ידי reckoner., 26.07.2013 at 20:37

Iron Fist needs boost

(image)


GC


GC need more nerf
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26.07.2013 - 21:31
 Desu
Wouldn't say IF needs a boost, just remove the[still existing] range nerf it has on its transports.

That nerf was there before the -1 hp nerf and is now not needed. I(and others) have argued about removing it because IF has been nerfed enough by the -1hp. Sure the admins partially removed this range nerf, but didn't completely remove it. If you look at IF right now you'll notice that everything has -2 range, but both types of transport have -3 range. Just make it -2 just like the rest and it'll be fine.
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27.07.2013 - 09:34
נכתב על ידי Desu, 26.07.2013 at 21:31

Wouldn't say IF needs a boost, just remove the[still existing] range nerf it has on its transports.

That nerf was there before the -1 hp nerf and is now not needed. I(and others) have argued about removing it because IF has been nerfed enough by the -1hp. Sure the admins partially removed this range nerf, but didn't completely remove it. If you look at IF right now you'll notice that everything has -2 range, but both types of transport have -3 range. Just make it -2 just like the rest and it'll be fine.


Absolutely, I support. I don't play IF too much anymore so I never dug deep in to what was making it weak. I knew the naval transports' nerf on range was its greatest weakness and now that you say this; yes, the nerf is longer needed. In fact, IF needs this to have its dignity. Just make all units -2 range, like in the description.


To meester:
GC does not need a nerf trust me. Expansion against neutrals is the same as before. (HP approx the same as 1 attack) if not better. And plus, the act of combining is much stronger. Lets say you attack rome with 30 units, and your enemy does too, you have 30 HP more than him. Lastly, tanks are 110 cost now, expansion is better, income is better.
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Don't trust the manipulative rabbit.
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27.07.2013 - 12:21
 Leaf
I need to be in Canada.

Mfw, I thought that transport range on IF was already changed to -2 from -3.
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