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פורסם על ידי Dereny, 12.04.2016 - 19:25
Hi folks, I've decided that I'm going to start up some debates on random topics maybe once a week or every other week to bring more life to off topic. The first topic will be your thoughts on whether or not people who make lifestyle choices that affect their health, such as smoking, should be allowed to have free healthcare. In other words, should people who make bad decisions that adversely affect their health and cause health problems (emphysema, cancer) be allowed to receive health services payed for by the public.

I'll try my best to stay neutral in the debates. If it gets a bit dry I'll add some questions in to stir discussion or steer it somewhere else. If I feel that the topic is dead I'll give it my rubber dead stamp



and call it over. I'll be semi moderating this so don't post hateful comments please (#NoBalkanProblemsHere). Anyway, let it begin!

Edit: I won't be responding to anyone for the most part to keep my opinion out of these. Sorry in advance if you're offended by this action!
16.04.2016 - 07:54
נכתב על ידי Zenith, 16.04.2016 at 06:44

What I wonder is, how did the government pay for everything before taxes.
I need to do a bit more research, but I'm pretty sure taxes came about during the depression to help the economy. It was said of them that they would be removed, but it never happened.

At least here in Europe taxes were instituted to fund the wars of the ruler.
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16.04.2016 - 09:43
נכתב על ידי Helly, 16.04.2016 at 01:53


Taxes are fine when the taxes are spent on the people, and not career politicians and there agendas to get rich off a corrupt system, ahem hillary. Some studies iv read in the past have said 25 to 35% of all taxes can not be accounted for in United States and that is my problem with taxes. That and corporate tax cuts loop holes and a failing welfare system, and you get a failed system, I was gonna move to belgium..... but Belgistan doesn't seem so much a fantasy any more, so I geuss I'll see if I can get into australia. God I hate this tiny blink in human history, it will go down in time as one of humanities greatest failures if we don't kill ourselves off.


I never said anything about Taxes in US, I was referring to Taxes in European Countries, where your Taxes gives you ability to free healthcare, free education, and safety.

For example, we don't pay a monthly fee for school here in Portugal, the only thing in school you pay is your lunch in the cantine, the school books every new year, and things inside school like pencils, paper, etc..

In Portugal, our healthcare system is only broke because we don't have enough working force that can sustain Healthcare system as it sits and Pension Fund, if we had a bigger working force, we'd be more sustainable.

Also, Belgium isn't really a fantasy, never was really..if you had to pick a country to move, and if you have any skills/qualifications, I'd say Germany, Scandinavia, Switzerland or UK are options.
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16.04.2016 - 09:47
נכתב על ידי Zenith, 16.04.2016 at 06:44


What I wonder is, how did the government pay for everything before taxes.



In Europe they always existed since medieval times (at least in my country) but in some countries, the State could fund himself with natural resources and exports.

e.g: Portugal between 1699 and 1745 due to the Gold discovered in Brazil, our State was pretty much funded solo with the gold, and when I say State being funded, I mean all of the Empire. However, we spent most of those funds in Churches that were pillaged in the Napoleonic Wars instead on spending in Industry and Infrastructure and a Navy.
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16.04.2016 - 09:47
 Oleg
Real problems for whole world are nazi and ustasha.
who cares about anything else!
Ustasha did the biggest crimes against humanity in whole history.
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16.04.2016 - 09:50
נכתב על ידי Pheonixking929, 16.04.2016 at 06:40


No one likes seeing the government take your hard earned money and place it in some "general fund" where you can't tell how or where it's being spent. It irritates me that there is a gas tax that's suppose to be used to fix up roads and yet every morning I drive I must see over a dozen potholes. Most people would like to keep all of their pay to spend or sve but we all understand on some level that if taxes were abolished, it would be mayhem.


I prefer seeing my hard earned money going to a "General Fund" that can then be directed for the various sectors of the State than me being the one choosing what to pay and where to pay.

Gas Tax is extremely lucrative for the State, if you don't have your roads fixed that's because there aren't a lot of people paying Gas Tax as you do, or they just get Gas for them in other countries (in my country's case), that or the Political Class incharge of that is incompetent.

In Portugal people that live up to 30km from Spain get their Gas from there because it's way cheaper than in Portugal. Last week some Consumer Association made a protest march to Galicia to get gas lol
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16.04.2016 - 12:12
נכתב על ידי Zenith, 16.04.2016 at 06:44

נכתב על ידי Pheonixking929, 16.04.2016 at 06:40

נכתב על ידי Al Fappino, 15.04.2016 at 23:08

נכתב על ידי Pheonixking929, 15.04.2016 at 18:32


I would agree with you that the only bad word in the english language is taxes, but they are needed to provide at least basic services.




What's with people and taxes? I'd gladly pay my share of taxes, because I'm paying for the whole system, for my school, for access to healthcare, for the protection by my Armed Forces, by my Police Departments, by Fire Departments...so I wouldn't exactly say Taxes are bad. Taxes are our civil obligation to our country, our countrymen, and our society. So yes, Taxes isn't a bad word at all. A Bad word would be demagogy

No one likes seeing the government take your hard earned money and place it in some "general fund" where you can't tell how or where it's being spent. It irritates me that there is a gas tax that's suppose to be used to fix up roads and yet every morning I drive I must see over a dozen potholes. Most people would like to keep all of their pay to spend or sve but we all understand on some level that if taxes were abolished, it would be mayhem.

What I wonder is, how did the government pay for everything before taxes.
I need to do a bit more research, but I'm pretty sure taxes came about during the depression to help the economy. It was said of them that they would be removed, but it never happened.

Income came through sales tax and the selling of public land (there was a lot to sell as America was expanding)/ The income tax did not become instituted until the beginning of the 20th century due to less revenue coming in through bonds and little land left to sell.
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Everyone is living a myth and it's important to know what yours is. It could be a tragedy- and maybe you don't want it to be.
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16.04.2016 - 12:57
נכתב על ידי Al Fappino, 16.04.2016 at 09:43

נכתב על ידי Helly, 16.04.2016 at 01:53


Taxes are fine when the taxes are spent on the people, and not career politicians and there agendas to get rich off a corrupt system, ahem hillary. Some studies iv read in the past have said 25 to 35% of all taxes can not be accounted for in United States and that is my problem with taxes. That and corporate tax cuts loop holes and a failing welfare system, and you get a failed system, I was gonna move to belgium..... but Belgistan doesn't seem so much a fantasy any more, so I geuss I'll see if I can get into australia. God I hate this tiny blink in human history, it will go down in time as one of humanities greatest failures if we don't kill ourselves off.


I never said anything about Taxes in US, I was referring to Taxes in European Countries, where your Taxes gives you ability to free healthcare, free education, and safety.

For example, we don't pay a monthly fee for school here in Portugal, the only thing in school you pay is your lunch in the cantine, the school books every new year, and things inside school like pencils, paper, etc..

In Portugal, our healthcare system is only broke because we don't have enough working force that can sustain Healthcare system as it sits and Pension Fund, if we had a bigger working force, we'd be more sustainable.

Also, Belgium isn't really a fantasy, never was really..if you had to pick a country to move, and if you have any skills/qualifications, I'd say Germany, Scandinavia, Switzerland or UK are options.

Well you never refered to a specific country, and to be honest, taxes are mostly the same. Aswell fun fact, I was rejected to start the process to gain german citizenship.
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We are not the same- I am a Martian.
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16.04.2016 - 14:02
נכתב על ידי Pheonixking929, 16.04.2016 at 12:12

נכתב על ידי Zenith, 16.04.2016 at 06:44

נכתב על ידי Pheonixking929, 16.04.2016 at 06:40

נכתב על ידי Al Fappino, 15.04.2016 at 23:08

נכתב על ידי Pheonixking929, 15.04.2016 at 18:32


I would agree with you that the only bad word in the english language is taxes, but they are needed to provide at least basic services.




What's with people and taxes? I'd gladly pay my share of taxes, because I'm paying for the whole system, for my school, for access to healthcare, for the protection by my Armed Forces, by my Police Departments, by Fire Departments...so I wouldn't exactly say Taxes are bad. Taxes are our civil obligation to our country, our countrymen, and our society. So yes, Taxes isn't a bad word at all. A Bad word would be demagogy

No one likes seeing the government take your hard earned money and place it in some "general fund" where you can't tell how or where it's being spent. It irritates me that there is a gas tax that's suppose to be used to fix up roads and yet every morning I drive I must see over a dozen potholes. Most people would like to keep all of their pay to spend or sve but we all understand on some level that if taxes were abolished, it would be mayhem.

What I wonder is, how did the government pay for everything before taxes.
I need to do a bit more research, but I'm pretty sure taxes came about during the depression to help the economy. It was said of them that they would be removed, but it never happened.

Income came through sales tax and the selling of public land (there was a lot to sell as America was expanding)/ The income tax did not become instituted until the beginning of the 20th century due to less revenue coming in through bonds and little land left to sell.

Ok, let me put this straight. I spoke too soon about why we shouldn't have taxes.

I made myself look stupid, didn't know what I was talking about here. Sorry.

However, people who can work but don't work don't deserve money. People who put their health in danger through smoking and drugs and drinking shouldn't get it either.

I hate taxes!
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16.04.2016 - 15:22
נכתב על ידי Zenith, 16.04.2016 at 14:02

נכתב על ידי Pheonixking929, 16.04.2016 at 12:12

נכתב על ידי Zenith, 16.04.2016 at 06:44

נכתב על ידי Pheonixking929, 16.04.2016 at 06:40

נכתב על ידי Al Fappino, 15.04.2016 at 23:08

נכתב על ידי Pheonixking929, 15.04.2016 at 18:32


I would agree with you that the only bad word in the english language is taxes, but they are needed to provide at least basic services.




What's with people and taxes? I'd gladly pay my share of taxes, because I'm paying for the whole system, for my school, for access to healthcare, for the protection by my Armed Forces, by my Police Departments, by Fire Departments...so I wouldn't exactly say Taxes are bad. Taxes are our civil obligation to our country, our countrymen, and our society. So yes, Taxes isn't a bad word at all. A Bad word would be demagogy

No one likes seeing the government take your hard earned money and place it in some "general fund" where you can't tell how or where it's being spent. It irritates me that there is a gas tax that's suppose to be used to fix up roads and yet every morning I drive I must see over a dozen potholes. Most people would like to keep all of their pay to spend or sve but we all understand on some level that if taxes were abolished, it would be mayhem.

What I wonder is, how did the government pay for everything before taxes.
I need to do a bit more research, but I'm pretty sure taxes came about during the depression to help the economy. It was said of them that they would be removed, but it never happened.

Income came through sales tax and the selling of public land (there was a lot to sell as America was expanding)/ The income tax did not become instituted until the beginning of the 20th century due to less revenue coming in through bonds and little land left to sell.

Ok, let me put this straight. I spoke too soon about why we shouldn't have taxes.

I made myself look stupid, didn't know what I was talking about here. Sorry.

However, people who can work but don't work don't deserve money. People who put their health in danger through smoking and drugs and drinking shouldn't get it either.

I hate taxes!

There will always be people who leech off the welfare system and steal other people's wifi. But just for some perspective, the majority of people on welfare in America do have a job. This recession (though technically a depression) has caused a lot of people to have to get extra help. Not too mention manufacturing has left America so many people who relied on those jobs were left with nothing (blacks have been hit the hardest since many live in the cities which use to have a lot of jobs through manufacturing). It's also left a dent in unions as America transitions to a service industry (McDonald's, doctors, lawyers, etc.). Manufacturing had centuries to develop effective unions, service has not yet developed much. Glad you changed your opinion though

Fun fact: This was the first time in American history that gays could file their federal income taxes together saving who knows how much money. It's one thing to be against gay marriage but I think it's another thing to economically repress them.
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Everyone is living a myth and it's important to know what yours is. It could be a tragedy- and maybe you don't want it to be.
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18.04.2016 - 16:17
I declare this debate to be over. The next debate topic will be posted Wednesday night (US Eastcoast Time). It will most likely be on China. Good day!
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